[0.0] Itches a bad word podcast is for informational purposes only and reflects the opinions of the host and guests.
[5.5] It contains explicit content and discusses sensitive topics such as domestic abuse, sexual assault, and violence which may be distressing to some listeners.
[13.1] Please take care of your emotional well-being while listening.
[15.8] While we strive for accuracy, we make no warranties about the completeness or liability of the information and any reliance on it is at your own risk.
[23.1] We do not endorse third-party views and are not liable for any defamatory claims.
[27.3] listeners should conduct their own research and consult professionals before making decisions.
[32.2] If you or someone you know is in danger, please call 911 or contact the National Domestic Abuse
[36.6] Hotline 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, at 800-799-72-33 or text START-START to 887-88. We've got your
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[55.3] Welcome back to Bitches a Bad Word.
[76.3] I'm your host, Lindsay, and as always, I'm here to help you build your survivors toolkit.
[81.8] If you're new here, this is a podcast all about reclaiming your power, breaking the cycles
[86.0] of abuse, and finding your way to a happy, healthier life.
[90.3] Our guest today is the incredible Daisy Swan, a career coach with over 20,000 hours of coaching
[96.2] experience who specializes in helping women transform their lives.
[100.3] Daisy is also the author of Making Work Work Secrets
[104.2] from a career coaches office and a fellow survivor
[107.2] of the complexities of divorce and parenting post abuse.
[111.4] Here's what we're diving into.
[113.2] The unique challenges of rebuilding your career
[115.8] after divorce and domestic abuse,
[118.0] and how to regain confidence and clarity
[120.8] and actionable steps to move forward.
[123.4] So let's get started.
[124.9] Welcome to Bitches About Word.
[126.5] Thank you for joining us today.
[128.6] Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. This is a topic I'm very passionate about.
[134.1] Well, it's a topic that has not been talked about enough.
[138.8] So we really need to help women who are experiencing abuse, feel seen, feel safe, feel heard.
[148.8] And this show is really designed to help the listener sort of identify perhaps what they're going through,
[156.9] know that they're not alone. And my goal is to provide tools for a tool kit on their way
[166.2] in, out of this journey. And hopefully avoid the mistakes that I made personally after leaving.
[172.2] My relationship, do not do what I did. It was hectic. So I want to talk about the challenges
[180.6] of rebuilding your life, not only after divorce or separation, but you adding, like adding
[187.7] the complex complexities, excuse me, of domestic abuse on top of that.
[191.8] So big picks or question, how does experiencing domestic abuse add another layer of complexity
[198.3] to rebuilding your life after divorce?
[200.9] Yeah.
[201.9] I mean, I think for anybody going through divorce, it's such a shock to your system.
[210.2] so much to figure out, period, right? How are you? Gosh, I remember just being so overwhelmed
[218.9] by figuring out, how do I get insurance now? And how do I take care of all of the home
[225.8] finances and so many things that you're doing maybe for the first time, maybe? The emotional
[235.6] part. I mean, I left my marriage, which was excruciating for me because I was a, I lived through
[244.9] my parents' terrible divorce and I didn't want that for my son who was five at the time.
[252.9] I thought I had married the man who I had waited so long to marry, and we were
[260.1] married for seven years together for eight and a half or so.
[266.6] And I was, you know, depleted, completely depleted.
[272.8] I did start planning before I left.
[276.3] I mean, I did the research I found in attorney,
[280.4] but beforehand, and I really knew in my mind
[284.9] what kind of divorce I wanted to have.
[286.8] I didn't want to war.
[288.5] I wanted to be really grounded for my son, things like that, which is very hard to be grounded for
[293.7] your kids when you're going through that. But the confidence piece, I mean, I've always been a
[301.0] very confident, kind of vivacious person. That's just who I was friendly outgoing. And I didn't
[309.4] tell people I was going through this, only two friends knew what I was going through.
[315.4] And so I really needed to build back confidence and that's what I see for the women that I'm working with or have worked with.
[325.4] You know, there's just such an emotional roller coaster when you're going through this as you know.
[332.4] Well, you also feel the stigma too.
[336.4] So you're like, you're getting divorce, which feels very,
[339.7] I, you carries a lot of shame. And then you're perhaps owning and sharing that not only was your,
[349.2] is, are you going through a divorce, but your marriage was abusive. So typically those are
[356.6] secrets you keep and you don't share with people. So then you're having to sort of come out in
[361.1] in two ways. And for me, I held a lot of shame on both friends, which one I shouldn't, I shouldn't
[368.0] alone either one of those feelings, but it is you have kids and nobody wants to get married
[374.7] or has children thinking, well, in about seven or eight years, this is going to blow
[379.0] up and we're going to get divorced, but it's all good. You want the forever.
[382.4] Exactly. Absolutely. And I knew that people looked at us as kind of a golden couple,
[390.4] And which really pained me because I wished that people would know what he sounded like when it was just the two of us.
[400.4] That was just awful.
[404.4] My son didn't know. He really didn't know.
[407.4] So at least we shielded him from what was going on.
[413.4] But that leads to other issues too,
[416.8] because he had a lot of questions,
[419.1] which I didn't want to address when he was younger.
[422.1] But which, by the way, he's great.
[424.6] He's very successful.
[426.5] He's a wonderful guy.
[428.6] Wow, that's lovely.
[429.8] Almost 29.
[431.1] So, but yeah, it's in thinking about this.
[439.1] It is a process to think that you're
[441.8] going to, you know, bone settle of this, like that's an unrealistic expectation. This takes a while to heal and to come back to yourself.
[454.8] To come back to the new self, which, you know, in thinking about our conversation.
[462.8] I wish I hadn't gone through all of that.
[465.6] And there are so many gifts.
[470.7] I grew so much and sadly oftentimes
[474.4] we really grow personally and professionally
[478.5] from the difficulties that we face.
[481.1] And so there are tremendous gifts
[484.8] and I've seen that with the people that I work with.
[487.7] Because oftentimes we're giving up so much of ourselves
[491.8] to make something very difficult work.
[495.8] That's really well said.
[497.0] And if you're coming out of a domestic,
[499.5] we abuse it or a relationship.
[502.3] And your identity is very much wrapped into
[507.1] your, that part of your life.
[512.3] And then your free and your leaving
[515.4] and the emotional abuse doesn't really stop there.
[518.2] I mean, I always wanna be very open and honest.
[520.7] if you have children together, the person doesn't just
[522.4] like, turn off who they are because you've left.
[525.0] In fact, you're together.
[526.5] You're locked up.
[527.5] You're together.
[528.5] You have hitched your wagon to some like a crazy train.
[532.1] And you have to realize that while you're
[534.9] trying to rebuild, you're still
[536.2] having to go through the emotional manipulation.
[540.9] For many survivors, the abuse is extended
[543.0] into financial control.
[545.2] And if somebody, if you weren't working,
[548.8] And somebody was controlling all the purse strings.
[552.2] In my experience, they are going to tighten those strings
[555.7] even tighter when you leave.
[558.6] Because you've like outed them.
[563.1] And how dare you leave?
[564.8] And if somebody has a narcissistic personality disorder,
[567.4] any sort of personality type, not only are they,
[570.8] I don't think that actually care that the marriage fell apart
[573.9] because they didn't do anything to hold it together,
[576.5] They have, they're upset because of their, you know, perceived reputation in the public
[581.9] or what not is now foiled.
[584.6] So they're not going to be nicer to you.
[587.2] In fact, they're like, you figure it out on your own.
[589.9] So if you are a woman who may be worked before or my focus is really on women who were
[598.1] state homeloms because there are very few careers in the world that you can take a 10-year
[605.9] gap and reenter the marketplace, making the same kind of money that somebody that's been
[611.4] in for 10 years is making, even understanding. I mean, the information changes, the technology
[616.4] changes, like it doesn't matter what you've done. Now you're trying to come in saying, you know,
[620.5] I've have a friend who has a master's degree and she can't get a job at Trader Joe's. She's like,
[625.2] I don't, I'm not qualified to do anything. So how can we help our listeners regain this financial
[631.4] independence after leaving. Yeah. And so financial independence, period, is a big ballywipe, right?
[640.5] I mean, what financial independence, you have to really know what you're talking about. What do
[646.0] you really imagine being able to do? So just as a foundation, it's really important to meet with
[657.4] the financial advisor, you know, and their pay for service or types of people.
[665.7] And that's what I did.
[666.9] So I knew what I needed to have in order to manage.
[673.2] I mean, you know, going through your finances very finely to look at what you're going
[680.0] to need, you know, from spousals to support if you're going to get that or child support.
[685.8] I did and I was very fortunate.
[689.6] My ex-husband made great money and so I was able to continue to live comfortably.
[701.5] You have to know your long-term goal.
[709.1] When people talk about, I want to be financially independent.
[712.6] By the way, I have the same conversation with 20 something
[716.2] because they don't know what they mean
[717.9] when they say financially independent
[719.6] or support myself.
[722.0] You have to know what you need
[723.9] and what you really need.
[725.7] And you have to give yourself a good runway.
[731.5] Now, that's sad.
[735.4] I, like, one of my clients, she was going through this.
[740.6] We talked about her network.
[742.3] We talked about her previous work.
[744.3] We really looked at her experience.
[747.2] And this is what I do with all of my clients.
[750.2] We look at who you are and now,
[753.3] who you have been, what experience you have,
[756.4] what matters to you,
[759.5] what you can bring forward into work.
[762.4] All of these different components.
[764.0] And it's great to talk them out with somebody.
[766.5] Yes, you can do this on your own, but I do recommend
[770.0] financial planner, a therapist, and a coach.
[774.6] Because talking this stuff through is important.
[778.6] And I know that sounds like it's gonna be a lot of money,
[780.9] but it's an investment and moving forward.
[784.1] They don't all have to be there for a.
[787.4] And so then putting together a great resume,
[792.2] there's a lot of resume templates on Pinterest
[796.5] and stuff don't use those.
[798.6] They're way too gobbly, just very straightforward, but you have to know what your skills are.
[804.6] A resume is for your skills. It's not, you know, paragraphs about what you did.
[812.2] But you need to have good skills showing up. What I mean, that might feel intimidating.
[819.5] You need to know what skills you can bring. And a lot of people have wonderful skills
[827.0] from when they've been working at home taking care of their family, working at schools or
[832.4] volunteering at schools or non-profits, sports, lyrics, all sorts of things, selling.
[838.9] You know, we got a lot of skills that we want to share. We got your share of private, chauffeur,
[844.2] that CEO of domestic organization. There's a lot. There's a lot of money.
[850.2] development.
[851.2] I mean, I don't think a budget.
[856.2] Yes.
[857.2] And it's not to like, I mean, I want to make it light because being a mistake at home mother
[862.7] is a massive responsibility.
[865.2] And it's a massive undertaking.
[866.9] And it's the one career that you're not paid appropriately for.
[873.9] And you've got one person and this is sort of anybody subjected to abuse when there's an
[878.9] imbalance of power.
[879.9] you've got the man who's going out and he's able to build his network, build his net worth,
[886.9] and leave the home every day getting richer and more connected.
[892.6] And you're here doing the greatest work ever,
[897.0] which is raising the children and managing the house.
[900.1] But your network isn't growing, maybe.
[903.6] And your net worth isn't growing.
[906.4] That is, you know, so much of that is true.
[910.4] And we do have a network.
[912.4] And one of the women that I worked with once we got this resume together
[917.4] and brought back to her memories, the things that she's done.
[922.4] Bringing, and it is really important to do this kind of inventory of who you are and who you've been.
[928.4] Maybe not in the last many years, but that's all there.
[933.4] And then it's talking to your network.
[936.9] And in one case, in this client,
[940.0] after a couple of sessions that we did together,
[944.3] we reached out to her network
[946.3] and a friend's husband would looking for a right hand person
[951.1] in his finance firm.
[953.9] And he talked to her and hired her on the spot.
[957.2] And she ended up with a pretty lucrative entree
[962.3] and to her professional life again after something like 12 years.
[966.9] So I mean, that's what you're doing in building that confidence.
[971.2] Like because that's huge.
[972.4] Confidence is a huge part of this equation because domestic abuse often
[976.7] strips survivors of their self-worth.
[979.3] And so it's important to hear from an outsider looking in when you've put it all
[985.0] on paper that you have worth.
[989.0] you do have a network, you can go out and rebuild yourself and maybe even better than you
[993.9] imagine because you do kind of carry that resilience, you know, from the confidence that it takes from
[1000.6] leaving. Hi, I'm Sarah Wayne Callies and I played Dr. Sarah Tenkready on prison break.
[1006.9] And I'm Paul Adleston and I played Agent Paul Kalerman on prison break. Please join us on our
[1011.4] rewatch podcast prison breaking with Sarah and Paul. We're gonna have all kinds of guests
[1015.8] I never before told stories. So follow us on Apple podcasts or Spotify or wherever you get your
[1020.8] podcasts. And you can subscribe to our watch party on the link there. We can't wait to see you there.
[1026.1] And follow us on Instagram at prison break podcasts. See you there.
[1036.6] What are strategies that a woman can take rebuilding, confidence and self-esteem
[1042.4] in a professional setting? Well, when you say in a professional set, you mean to bring to a
[1048.6] or to bring to a professional setting, right?
[1050.7] Okay.
[1051.7] So saying, okay, here I am, I've left.
[1054.3] How does this look?
[1056.0] Yeah.
[1056.9] Well, there are specific things to do.
[1059.9] Like one really take care of yourself,
[1061.8] review haven't been.
[1064.7] And I mean, that seriously, I worked with women
[1068.9] who have not gone to the doctor.
[1071.2] Like go and get your hormones checked out.
[1073.9] I was definitely going into Perry Menopause
[1077.8] run I left and yes, so take care of yourself. Go to the doctor. Start working out or do something
[1087.7] that gets you physically moving. If you need to revamp your look, your style, go and do that,
[1098.0] which means go to a makeup counter. I mean, we have any things available to us.
[1106.2] You know, we use one of the priest dialists at Nordstrom or something. I don't know.
[1113.0] Anywhere, of course, we have so many things we didn't have when I was going through this.
[1116.9] We've got Pinterest, blah, blah, blah. But to get ideas. But do those things.
[1122.8] It's really important to feel like you look your best. And, you know, one of the things
[1129.9] So that really is important for us to keep coming back to is what are our values?
[1136.5] What am I doing this?
[1138.4] And so that you have some sort of guiding principle for what you're up to.
[1144.0] So maybe it's to get back and show your ex-husband, what a jerk he was and what he lost.
[1150.2] But maybe it's to really show your kids, I can do this.
[1155.1] I'm going to be a great example.
[1157.9] Maybe it's that.
[1159.4] or maybe it's to show yourself or your mom.
[1162.7] So, or somebody.
[1163.8] Right.
[1164.9] Well, and if you're a, like, let's say you're
[1167.3] at the beginning of motherhood, you're 20 something,
[1170.0] and you have young kids and you're experiencing
[1173.2] the first red flags, first signs of potentially being
[1177.2] in an abusive relationship, identifying that early on
[1181.5] is very hard to do, especially if you're a young mother
[1184.1] who's exhausted and run down.
[1186.4] But if I could speak to a listener right now who's 20 something and they know that they're in a relationship that is
[1197.2] toxic
[1198.2] potentially abusive
[1199.7] How do we help them? What do we say? So if you're you're staying home your husband's going to work. What is some?
[1206.3] What are some stay at home mom?
[1209.4] Opportunities is it is volunteering important because it can be something that you can use on your resume later when you're no longer
[1215.6] we're in kids. So the best advice for our young mom is.
[1219.6] Yeah. Definitely either start aside, hustle, online. There's so many things that are available
[1228.6] online, like an Etsy shop or some sort of service. But if you're good with social media,
[1238.6] good with photography, you know, offer your professional services on Upwork or some of the other
[1249.7] websites, you know, Fiverr or something like that. Yeah, be doing something that you can talk about
[1258.6] in terms of the skills that you've developed or you're used, maybe at school, you know, at your
[1267.3] kids schools. I was on the board of our pre-K and for a little while which was crazy. But
[1277.9] you have to do something that energizes you. Take classes if you see technology that's happening
[1289.1] that you're not making use of. You know, that might feel like a slog. But if you're seeing
[1297.0] things are not going in the direction that you want. Be as strategic as your soon to be
[1305.5] ex-husband is being. And that may really lie in the face of the authenticity or bringing to your
[1315.4] relationship. But that was something that I realized when I knew I was leaving. With like, you know,
[1323.2] I bought some of the clothes I knew I needed to continue with my work in
[1328.5] kind of believing. Right?
[1330.6] Yes. We always say if you can have access to anything that, you know,
[1334.9] especially if you're in a financially controlling or abusive relationship,
[1340.3] building that wardrobe, if your partner doesn't mind that you go shopping or
[1345.4] building, you know, upgrading your computer, getting a new phone, whatever it is
[1350.9] you need to do that they allow you to buy,
[1355.7] to help build your,
[1359.4] your own personal brand that you're gonna need to take
[1361.4] with you when you leave.
[1362.4] And it's important to understand that this is strategic.
[1367.1] And I mean, obviously, if you're an immediate danger,
[1370.6] you just need to get the hell out.
[1372.4] Please just go.
[1373.4] And there may not be time to plan for this.
[1375.5] But I mean, if you're entering,
[1378.0] I mean, nowadays too, there's like you said,
[1380.2] There's so many opportunities for women
[1382.2] that don't have to leave and go to office from nine to five.
[1386.4] You can stay home and build a career.
[1388.6] And we can do it all.
[1390.2] I mean, we can make humans, we can make a really good career
[1394.2] choice as well.
[1395.4] So I want to empower them.
[1398.0] And sorry, I was going to say it can be the things
[1402.2] that you love to do.
[1403.8] If you're a fantastic cook for your family,
[1408.2] I mean, cooking shows, cooking websites,
[1410.3] I look at them every morning, many of them.
[1413.8] Right, we can do that.
[1417.6] If you like making something,
[1420.0] maybe I get serious about it.
[1423.0] So all of these things are providing us skills.
[1427.4] It doesn't have to be,
[1428.6] but you're gonna go and be somebody's
[1433.3] administrative assistant.
[1434.8] But that for a lot of people,
[1436.4] that's how they get back into work as being somebody's assistant,
[1441.0] which for me would have been she would mean
[1443.1] how cause I'm a terrible assistant.
[1445.3] But there's also,
[1449.0] I mean, I did work with one woman.
[1451.2] I was doing some vocational evaluation work
[1455.4] for an attorney with someone.
[1456.9] And she had really worked a lot on social media.
[1460.8] She really liked it.
[1461.8] And she was doing it on the side for their family.
[1465.8] And that's a saleable girl.
[1469.4] And so she had been working for a year
[1472.7] as before she got married.
[1474.6] And actually she went back to her former employer
[1478.5] and explained what her situation was.
[1481.3] And she actually got back into the same company
[1484.4] she had been left.
[1485.8] So that's another part of networking.
[1489.6] The people you haven't been in touch with for years,
[1492.5] if you like them, you didn't leave on bad terms,
[1495.4] reconnect. That's part of your network. It may feel really
[1499.3] phony and like it's been years. That's okay. People understand. But
[1506.8] anyway, in terms of her skill set because social media is such a
[1510.5] thing. It really helped her to re-engage with the workforce
[1516.1] again, get back into a job. But to remember why you're doing this,
[1522.3] And that's also why we can't do this alone.
[1525.4] You need your friends, you know, or your team,
[1529.8] your coach, or your therapist, or to be able to say to you,
[1534.8] you know, you're going to do this.
[1536.5] You're going to get through this, you know, just know
[1541.9] this is a process and it's not easy, but you can do it.
[1547.8] We can do hard things.
[1549.0] We can.
[1549.8] We're going to take a quick break.
[1551.0] when we come back we're going to talk about finding balance and clarity after divorce and especially
[1556.6] after any type of abuse whatsoever. We'll be right back besties. Okay, welcome back to this
[1567.0] episode of Bitches a Bad Word. We have the amazing Daisy Swan joining us today helping us understand
[1574.0] what our worth is. Our self-worth is important to build that net worth that we're going to need
[1581.4] when we leave a relationship of any sorts, but especially after you have been out of the workforce
[1587.3] for an extended amount of time, your confidence isn't quite where it needs to be,
[1593.0] and the tools that you're going to need to build yourself back up and be ready to rock this new
[1600.2] life because it is amazing on the other side. And you're telling all these stories of women who
[1608.6] come to you and they say, I don't even know, I just like to cook or I just like social media.
[1613.4] I know how to sew or whatever it is that they know how to do and it doesn't feel like
[1617.7] a monetizable skill set. And someone like you who is a coach that can, you can sit with and
[1625.4] you're gonna unpack all of those hidden talents that they have and put it together into
[1632.2] I resume form or into building that self confidence back to say, wait a minute, this is,
[1638.8] I do have a skill set.
[1640.0] I haven't just been changing diapers or cooking for my husband for all this time.
[1644.2] I have value.
[1646.9] And I personally really lacked in self confidence when I left because my ex was very financially
[1655.5] abusive.
[1657.7] And he would say to me that while I created value while we were together and I was taking
[1664.9] care of our children while he was building an extraordinarily successful business, I took
[1670.6] said value with me when I left him.
[1674.4] So I was sitting there, I have no value now and that was the story that I was telling myself
[1681.0] for like a while when I was sort of stuck in this victimhood of maybe he's right.
[1686.6] And this is obviously a ploy to try to pull you back.
[1689.9] And you know, we say that women leave an abusive relationship many times and often go back.
[1696.6] And yeah, we say there's no shame in staying.
[1699.5] You're leaving when you're ready to leave you.
[1701.8] You have to make the choices that are right for you that are safest for you.
[1705.4] But oftentimes your ex, even if he isn't abusive, doesn't want, like they don't want
[1710.6] you to leave.
[1711.6] Like, oh, she'll calm down, she'll calm back.
[1715.1] going to use tricks and tools to manipulate you and continue to control.
[1719.7] I did.
[1720.7] Yes.
[1721.7] Yeah.
[1722.7] Sure.
[1723.7] I mean, I was always, you know, when I would finally get really sick of things and I
[1732.2] feel like I just mentally and emotionally shot him out and he would know it.
[1739.4] And then it three months.
[1742.4] around three months when he'd be really nice for all that time. And I'd start to relax a little
[1749.4] bit and I'd start to think, oh, maybe this is going to work. And as soon as I had something like that
[1757.2] thought and and my body started to relax a little bit, it was it was on a ripped out rug.
[1766.8] Yeah. Yep. Well, because you're still in the cycle of abuse, there are still it's like,
[1771.0] I really want to impress upon people that the way that you cycle with your partner while
[1776.6] you are with them is the way they're going to continue to cycle if not.
[1780.7] It's not in your everyday life because you're not having, you get to close your own door
[1785.2] and sleep in your own bed, which is the ultimate feeling of peace.
[1790.7] If you're co-parenting with this person, the good luck.
[1795.1] Good luck trying to understand.
[1797.2] I have had the most ridiculous arguments about paying half of us, you know, signing up
[1802.6] the kid for sports and then you sign them up.
[1805.6] Like you're sitting there to like the last possible second.
[1808.3] Like I don't want to do the one, I don't want to be the one who purchases this because
[1811.6] I'm not going to get paid half of this back.
[1814.0] And so I almost want to say to people, like the best thing you can do is to build your
[1820.0] own financial resources so that you are no longer dependent on that person.
[1824.6] You can make the choices and just like literally not like give a crap whether or not they
[1830.0] pay you or not to say these are the sports extracurricular clothes.
[1834.9] What have you that I would like to have for my child and I am not going to expect anything
[1841.1] from the other person because any opportunity that they can to come in and manipulate
[1845.5] you or play a game with you or have you beg.
[1848.9] I found myself just like lip in the other day being like I paid for this.
[1854.5] And it's like, it's nothing.
[1856.6] It's like 100 something bucks.
[1858.0] This is half.
[1858.7] And I've asked like three times and I'm like,
[1861.0] stop being so predictable.
[1863.8] Lindsay, like this is the what he wants you to do.
[1866.3] He's excited that even gauged him in this little power play.
[1871.4] And he likes the idea, most likely that I'm sitting there
[1875.2] wanting that money back.
[1876.4] So I'm like, okay, whatever.
[1877.8] We're done.
[1878.7] But I want my kid to play this sport.
[1881.7] So I'm gonna suck it up and we're gonna move forward
[1885.2] because that's the only way to true freedom
[1889.5] is if you don't need anything from your ex
[1892.6] and a lot of women are experiencing financial abuse
[1896.6] and such that like they don't even care
[1898.3] if there's a court order.
[1899.3] They don't care if they have to,
[1900.9] you know, let's pay you the last possible second
[1903.8] or just because you were awarded something
[1906.4] doesn't mean that you're going to get it
[1908.5] unfortunately and depending on your state
[1911.5] what situations that you're in will be honest.
[1915.7] The family court system is broken and judges don't typically want to put a parent and
[1921.5] jail for being in contempt of a child support order.
[1924.8] They want you to figure it out.
[1927.3] And you are going to have to have that realization that you may not even come from a situation
[1935.0] where your partner has any means to support you post divorce.
[1939.8] And we need to talk about that.
[1942.4] We need to understand that if you're coming from zero, so you leave your bank accounts,
[1948.3] just nothing, you're juggling parenting, healing, starting over professionally.
[1955.2] So what's the advice that we can give for creating a manageable, sustainable work-life balance
[1966.9] if you're coming from day one, my first day on the job,
[1972.5] how, what does that look like when I'm figuring it all out?
[1976.1] What's the best advice?
[1977.5] Well, I have to go back to before the first day on the job because before
[1984.3] you're your first day on the job, you've got to have things set up, right?
[1988.4] You've got to have your support team set up.
[1990.5] So somebody's going to, you know, maybe your kids are in school and they're going
[1994.5] to be there and to opt for care.
[1996.4] And so they'll be hanging out, which I know a lot of kids
[1999.4] love that.
[2000.8] So you're going to be playing on a basketball
[2005.9] that I don't know in the gym or whatever.
[2011.8] So but you have to have that stuff in place on me, if they.
[2015.6] And then, yeah, whatever you can do to have other people
[2022.6] to help out picking your kids up.
[2025.4] If you need that, it's the old takes of all it.
[2029.9] So the primary thing I want to say again and again
[2033.2] is don't try to do all of this by yourself.
[2036.9] I know people who have moved back in with family
[2040.4] so that they have better support.
[2042.8] If you're really in that starting from zero place,
[2047.1] living with other people is going to be a real support.
[2052.6] You know, honestly, the women that I have worked with, they're not starting from total zero.
[2059.6] And, you know, they have to get their professional life back on track and that does take some time.
[2069.6] And so I mean, if you're talking about a real starting from zero, chances are either you're
[2081.1] going to go back to working in something that you were doing, but at a lower level.
[2087.6] Or you're going to do something that's going to be a lower level.
[2092.6] You know, shall we say professional work?
[2096.3] So it's low hanging fruit, right?
[2100.4] Retail, food service, something like that.
[2104.3] Hospitality, those things are not necessarily
[2107.0] gonna make you a lot of money to start with.
[2109.9] But, you know, one of my clients had been in retail,
[2114.8] she had been in retail management at a high level.
[2118.1] She came back in part time while everybody was getting acclimated to this new life of divorce.
[2128.1] She came back in part time doing retail.
[2132.8] But then because of her background, she worked her way up quickly into management and got
[2138.8] back into a corporate position.
[2141.7] So that's what I'm saying.
[2143.7] I don't want to go right to the first day because that's hard.
[2148.3] But when you're honestly, we're all dealing with work,
[2153.7] life, balance issues, whether you're just coming out
[2157.2] of an abusive relationship where you're
[2160.7] took living a life in a marriage.
[2163.9] Everybody's dealing with how do you get your kid
[2167.9] to the dinner table or away from their phones
[2171.3] or out the door in the morning.
[2172.8] That's just life.
[2174.9] The mom guilt.
[2175.9] I was like the mom, you have to let go of the mom guilt.
[2179.2] I was watching something on Instagram.
[2180.9] It was Sean Duriam's giving a commencement speech.
[2183.6] And she's like, if people see me as this extraordinarily
[2187.2] successful woman who is, you know,
[2191.1] on a single mom of three, which is like,
[2193.9] if you see me succeeding in one area of my life,
[2196.8] I am failing in the other area of my life.
[2200.0] It's not, at work, I'm missing a kid's game.
[2205.6] If I'm at my kid's game, I'm missing something at work.
[2208.7] And so the reality is that the work,
[2211.9] life balance is real.
[2214.4] Mom's in the shed, we're already kind of guilt.
[2216.9] We feel guilt about everything anyway.
[2220.2] So you're gonna have to just pump the brakes on the guilt.
[2224.3] And then also just mindfulness that,
[2228.4] you know, you're in a new place in life, which can be truly daunting, but also rewarding.
[2237.1] And, you know, having your children see that, you know, you can be a working mother and you
[2243.1] can take care of your children and you can, you know, do all the things. And they're going to be
[2249.5] okay. If they have to go to aftercare and they've never been to aftercare, they may love it. And
[2254.4] you know, that's what you're going to need to do. And you're going to pick them up. They're like,
[2257.4] This is the most amazing thing ever. We always feel guilty when we're not around, but you're in a new position. You're single and come earn her now. You need. Yeah.
[2267.1] Let go. I felt the way when my son was off the college and I had my dog at home. Okay. So
[2274.0] I'll take you right. Take care for my dog. Oh my gosh. It's true. I mean, so the toughest part of rebuilding is figuring out who you are now
[2283.8] because you're new. And this is great. This is the new version of yourself. So how can women use this
[2292.2] creativity or their lifelong learning to rediscover themselves? Well, you know, one of the things I
[2299.0] talk about with so many clients, men, women, younger, older, is about connecting with yourself,
[2308.3] period, right? Like what are the things that once brought you joy or that do bring you joy,
[2316.8] bring them back into your life period? Find a way. I was just talking with a client the other day who's
[2326.1] he's very successful but he's burned out and he doesn't like his work anymore and he's the
[2330.5] soul breadwinner. I mean, I just to say, man and women struggle with this stuff. Okay. And we were
[2339.3] talking about one of my favorite tools to reconnect with oneself. This is just one book. I'm a big
[2346.1] book person. I have used, used and loved a lot of books. They're my good friends. But one is the
[2353.3] artist way, which is a wonderful way of reconnecting to yourself by writing every morning.
[2362.9] And it takes you through a bunch of prompts, like going through a class.
[2369.6] And I did it for myself, like, when it first came out to 90s and I'd done it again in
[2375.1] you know, 200 before, I mean, 2014.
[2378.4] Yeah, 2014.
[2380.9] And so like, it's just a way to connect to yourself.
[2386.3] Meditation and I've been a mindfulness instructor
[2390.7] for many years.
[2391.6] I have been a mindfulness person since I was in my teens.
[2396.4] And mindfulness can be daunting to people.
[2402.1] And I think, oh, my God, how am I going to find time to sit down?
[2405.8] It doesn't have to be a big commitment.
[2408.2] but just a little bit of quiet
[2411.2] and some new things that you say to yourself.
[2413.8] And like one of the things I really love
[2416.0] that's out in the world now is mindful self-compassion.
[2420.2] And there's a book that I recommend
[2422.8] who a lot of women clients,
[2425.3] I work with a lot of MBAs also.
[2427.1] And I recommend this to them all the time
[2430.0] it's fierce self-compassion.
[2433.3] And so that we can really learn
[2436.2] how to take care of ourselves and the people we love with a sense of kindness to ourselves,
[2442.8] without being a pushover. Really important, you know, so finding, reconnecting to the thing,
[2451.1] you know, doing vision boards, that's really fun. You know, so the amount with your girlfriends
[2457.6] is really fun. To see, where am I going? What do I want? What do I have to have in my life and not
[2464.8] making it just all quasmin rosy, but like what really do connect with? To give you some sort of
[2473.9] vision because we have to have that vision of where we're going. Right, especially if you're feeling
[2478.4] stuck because I mean, and your vision was is altered. The vision that you thought, the, you know,
[2485.4] the life that you thought you had, the life that you were building, the life that you dreamed of,
[2489.2] That has been altered by an abusive experience or whatever your situation is.
[2496.8] It is not what you imagined it would be. And that's a hard place to be and you can get stuck in that
[2503.7] mind of said of this isn't what I wanted and I can't believe. I say victimhood but it's
[2509.5] bigger than that. It's just you're disappointed. This isn't what you wanted. So you need to
[2515.6] get unstuck and get moving in the direction of building your life, rebuilding your life,
[2524.5] and rebuilding your life on your terms. So it can be exciting again. You don't really have to ask
[2530.2] permission from the person that you probably once had to ask permission to do most things.
[2535.9] So I really want to inspire people to say, okay, this is a new life. You have a
[2540.3] Freshly, like you can reinvent your life, reinvent yourself at any point.
[2545.0] And you can make this decision today that this is where you want to go and this is what you have to do.
[2549.0] So the people that may have to work and retail again at the lower level may have to be a waitress.
[2553.6] Whatever it is, that doesn't mean that that's the next forever forever. That's not that's not
[2559.5] forever. I mean, I routinely work with people on what I call a bridge job. It's just, it's something
[2567.2] to get you from where you are now so that you can reassess, get yourself going again,
[2575.7] and that can be at all different levels. It can be a high level bridge job or it can be a lower level
[2580.4] bridge job, but it's something that's going to help you move on to the next thing. And that's
[2585.9] how we build careers is just keep moving in the direction that we want to go in. And the way I
[2592.2] I think that's true also in relationships.
[2595.0] You know, I had a list of,
[2598.2] I'm not gonna go out with this kind of guy.
[2602.0] You know, like I had so many things, no, no.
[2605.6] And, you know, I did find somebody
[2609.4] or he found me out on a after my divorce.
[2613.5] So, and that helped a lot for me.
[2618.4] I made a lot of mistakes.
[2620.0] I promise you I made a lot of mistakes
[2622.5] and I hear about them for my son,
[2625.5] which breaks my heart.
[2626.6] And the amount has not left my heart yet,
[2631.3] but I work on giving myself forgiveness a lot.
[2637.3] So compassion, compassion, boy.
[2640.2] It's really a tight, that's survival for me.
[2644.5] Really? I love it.
[2645.8] So we're gonna take another break.
[2647.2] And when we come back,
[2648.0] to talk about building that personal brand and also going back and touching on to protecting
[2654.7] yourself from future toxic dynamics. So we will take a little break and hear from our sponsor
[2659.9] and we'll be right back. Besties fit. All right. Welcome back. We've got the incredible
[2669.0] Daisy Swan with us and she is helping you build your life back after you have done the hard
[2678.9] thing you're going to need to be doing, which is leaving safely, do whatever you need to do
[2684.2] to get safe if you're not ready to leave. It's okay. There's no shame in the staying game as we say.
[2689.8] So if you have found yourself free from your abusive or toxic relationship and you're ready to
[2698.4] rebuild this life that inspires you and it makes you want to get out there and just do all the
[2705.3] most amazing things and be the best version of yourself. Someone like Daisy Swan, a coach
[2711.2] that can help you just to understand where you are and help you. Pull those pieces of yourself
[2718.8] that you've forgotten about and as you're rebuilding and understand that you are a badass and
[2726.2] you have a brand. You have a personal brand that you can build that's, you know,
[2729.6] will attract a potential employer,
[2732.7] will attract a potential partner.
[2734.7] You have something in you that you've forgotten about
[2737.5] and someone like Daisy can help you find her again.
[2741.1] Fuck.
[2741.9] I forgot.
[2742.7] Well, that, and that's, you know,
[2745.5] to build that back.
[2747.2] I mean, that's why I say you can't do it alone
[2750.3] because we do need those mirrors in our life
[2754.7] who can mirror back to us.
[2756.7] who we really are as opposed to looking at this face
[2763.6] that's been giving us that Juju for a while.
[2767.1] Yeah.
[2768.4] And so by the way, I mean, I found when I left my relationship,
[2774.2] I had so much more psychological space to think about other things.
[2782.8] I didn't have to be going on and on and talking about that.
[2786.6] all the time. I had room to think about what I wanted and to do the things that felt more
[2796.5] invigorating. And so, you know, I love, I happened to love the idea of branding as you
[2805.1] mentioned. And I built my coaching business. I had already been working as a career coach.
[2816.0] I was a queer advisor at universities.
[2819.0] And then I left doing that when my son was three.
[2821.9] I, you know, I just really felt like I needed to be home
[2824.9] and I started doing work on the side,
[2828.1] not on the side,
[2828.9] but I was working very part time doing contracts
[2833.0] or I'd meet with people at my house.
[2835.4] And then I started working like 10 hours a week for somebody.
[2839.7] So I was keeping my foot in that door,
[2843.0] coaching and then I got certified and I just went more and more and that's when I started my business.
[2851.0] So I had been out of my marriage and in a new relationship and he was very supportive of what I was doing.
[2858.0] So I kept getting more training and really launched my work and it was through just as you said through visiting.
[2867.0] and building what I wanted to see for myself.
[2874.0] And so then I really had to think about, okay, what is my brand?
[2879.0] And I knew, you know, I wanted to be approachable.
[2883.0] I wanted to be professional. I wanted to be this, you know, sort of great resource for people.
[2889.0] and I think we can transmit that in the words that we use in our resume.
[2898.1] You can transmit that on LinkedIn or whatever social media you use.
[2904.6] The colors that you pick, that's card and branding. The font that you like,
[2910.4] the clothes that you wear, all of that is what we're sharing with the world.
[2915.2] right? Right. That is so important to understand. That's what you're putting out there to
[2921.4] write a potential anybody. But something like LinkedIn can feel extremely intimidating, but it's such
[2929.0] an important tool, right? For job seekers. It's so intimidating. You know, it doesn't have to be
[2936.8] perfect. You're gonna be sort of invisible to most people until you start reaching out to
[2945.0] to connect with people.
[2947.1] One of the things, so you know,
[2949.0] you, it's important to have a great,
[2952.3] you know, sort of shoulders up photo
[2954.6] that really shows your face.
[2956.4] And it's not, you know, out with the girls kind of thing
[2960.4] or with your kids.
[2961.8] If the person-
[2962.6] Your mom bun and your hat pants.
[2965.3] Yeah, no.
[2967.7] And having a good tagline of,
[2971.3] and I like people to have a few words to describe
[2975.2] what the skills they were money to use.
[2978.4] So if it's bookkeeping, by the way,
[2983.3] bookkeeping everybody will always need a bookkeeper.
[2987.2] So that's a good thing to be if that's one of your thing.
[2994.0] Or an organizer, people need organizers,
[2996.6] but anyway, there's a lot of different things
[2999.8] and you can put those as a tagline. And then an about section and you can talk about
[3007.3] the things you know you can do and what you could bring to an organization. One of the things I
[3016.2] really recommend people do and I know this is scary for a lot of people. Look at job descriptions
[3023.5] that you think you might be interested in going for.
[3028.2] It can look on, indeed, you can look on
[3031.4] idealist.org, if that's for nonprofits.
[3035.5] And you can look at LinkedIn for jobs.
[3040.1] If you find some job descriptions that look
[3043.7] even a little bit interesting to you,
[3046.1] look at what they're looking for
[3048.8] and views those skills where that language
[3052.8] in your about section and also in any descriptions
[3056.7] that you have in your work experience.
[3060.1] And those will help you be relatable
[3064.6] or if you're a candidate for a job,
[3067.1] at least you're speaking this in language
[3069.1] to this potential employer.
[3070.7] That's great advice.
[3072.2] Yeah, that makes total sense.
[3073.4] You wanna be able to attract somebody
[3075.0] that's just scrolling through applicants.
[3077.4] There's has to be some sort of talking point
[3079.0] or key point that attracts them
[3080.9] or make some stop and look at what you've done.
[3083.9] And so that's a great advice.
[3086.5] I wanna talk about before we wrap up
[3089.4] that there's a lot of survivors.
[3092.7] I self included worry about falling into similar patterns
[3097.2] and future relationships.
[3099.7] Perhaps they met their abuser at the last place they worked
[3104.7] or whatever.
[3105.6] I mean, you really have to understand
[3108.7] you're coming in with a different person that you were post abuse.
[3117.9] And we always talk about red flags.
[3121.2] So what are red flags that we should watch out for to avoid toxic dynamics,
[3125.8] whether they're personal or, but mostly professional?
[3128.4] What are these?
[3130.4] We love to say, like, when you see that flag, it's okay to go.
[3134.1] And it's okay to just like, this isn't working.
[3137.3] This makes me feel uncomfortable.
[3139.3] I'm leaving, stopping the nice person that just sticks around and takes it.
[3142.9] So what are some red flags we need to tell our besties to look out for?
[3148.8] Well, I don't know.
[3150.1] I would say in the next relationships I've been in.
[3153.7] And it's asked till many questions.
[3156.9] I ask and I ask and I ask and I give they don't like that.
[3161.4] well there's the answer. But also, people can say a lot of things about themselves,
[3169.5] the purpose of putting, like how they really show up on a regular basis. But I just really
[3177.1] took a lot of space for myself. And then I would sort of tiptoe and any in, and have this person
[3190.2] meet other people and, you know, get them fed and buy other people to make sure that
[3196.4] I felt like I had to burn through, you know, most of them. I'm going to say probably most
[3203.1] of us get into some sort of a beset situation because of patterns we were already living
[3210.2] from something before. I had to burn through a lot of relationship karma.
[3216.0] That's the way I think about it.
[3219.0] I love that.
[3220.0] I got better at choosing.
[3223.0] So, but I know our fairs of the heart, they're tricky.
[3230.0] And it's worth it.
[3232.0] It definitely is worth it.
[3233.0] Everything is better on the other side.
[3235.0] When you do the work, when you do the work and you rebuild yourself and you take space for yourself and you can, you know,
[3242.0] You know, understand it's going to take some time.
[3244.7] So we are going to take one final break.
[3246.7] And when we come back, we are going to ask you if you have a tool
[3252.1] that our besties can put in their ticket.
[3254.5] When they are leaving, or they have left, their relationship.
[3258.3] We'll be right back.
[3263.5] Welcome back to Bitch is a bad word.
[3265.4] We have Daisy Swan joining us today.
[3268.2] Daisy, you've shared so many incredible insights today.
[3272.8] So for listeners, can you give us a tool that our besties can put into their toolkit
[3278.2] to help them start rebuilding their lives and careers after their divorce and domestic abuse?
[3283.5] Well, I'm... there are so many, but I think the main thing is to learn to let go.
[3294.7] And that's not something I can point you necessarily to a website, but... or... but learning
[3303.5] to let go. It's one of the hardest things to do, but it's one of the most important.
[3316.5] You know, there are so many things I wanted for my sound life. There are so many things I wanted
[3322.0] for my life that just, you know, I found a card for myself. I kept it on my desk for a long time,
[3329.5] which was, you know, who are we kidding?
[3332.1] There never was a plan.
[3333.5] I mean, you know, you think things are going to go
[3337.1] according to plan.
[3338.3] And for so few people, if things go according to plan.
[3342.8] And, you know, even if it takes a while for their plan
[3346.7] to crumble, believe me, a plan is not going to, you know,
[3349.7] it doesn't always go according to plan.
[3353.6] And so we'd have to learn to be able to let go
[3358.5] holding what we thought we needed to have happen.
[3364.0] And one of my meditation teachers, Jack Cornfield,
[3367.9] we would talk about what we called Rope Burn.
[3371.3] If you're holding onto a rope,
[3373.1] because you want it to stay exactly where it is
[3375.4] and it's moving, Rope Burn.
[3378.3] So, I'm learning how to be,
[3383.3] okay, this is what's happening now.
[3385.6] What do we do now?
[3386.5] Let it go. Yes, we need to let it go. And trust and trust. Find trust in yourself too.
[3394.9] I love that. I have a lot of reminders. Since you said that business, my trust rock.
[3402.1] Yes, trust. I've had this nearby me for years and trust is, you know, that's gonna work out.
[3412.1] you're gonna find what you need, you're gonna build what you want, you know, um, your kids are
[3418.0] gonna be okay. Especially if you're coming from a broken life for so long and you know, someone's been,
[3426.5] you lack trust, you lack trust in other people, you lack trust in yourself. So when you rebuild
[3432.5] that trust and trust that, you know, what if it's all gonna work out? Why not? Why, or I like to
[3439.3] to say I do these like mantras for myself.
[3441.0] I'm like, why not me?
[3442.5] Why can't it be me?
[3443.5] Like trust, trusting in yourself,
[3446.3] rebuilding that self-confidence again
[3447.8] and saying that good things can happen to you.
[3450.2] Good and why not?
[3451.8] And it's not all doom and gloom.
[3455.0] What if you woke up and just it all worked out?
[3457.5] And right now I'm living proof that 100% of the things
[3461.0] that I thought were going to go wrong
[3463.9] or that I thought were gonna go right.
[3465.5] It's never happened.
[3467.4] It's like again, you just said
[3469.2] There's nothing goes according to plan,
[3471.6] but right now as I'm sitting here,
[3473.9] speaking to you, everything that I thought was going
[3476.3] to go wrong today hasn't happened.
[3479.2] So, you know, I trust in my life
[3482.4] that it's all gonna work out.
[3483.9] You're on the right path.
[3485.1] And so I really appreciate our time together today.
[3490.5] And before we go, where can our listeners find your work?
[3493.6] Oh, yeah, my website is daisysmond.com.
[3499.2] I have two nouns for a name and yeah, people can reach out through my website and happy, happy to
[3509.8] I love it and your book making work work secret from a career coaches office. I don't have a copy
[3515.7] if you want to throw it up. Yeah, it's an e-book. I decided that was easier than having
[3523.3] having a thousand books in my garage.
[3527.0] But yeah, it said that can be found on the lawn equally.
[3531.8] Thank you for joining us today on Bitches of Adward.
[3534.7] Daisy Swan, you are an inspiration
[3537.5] and your insight was just incredible
[3539.4] and I'm so grateful for you joining us today.
[3543.1] Thank you so much for having me.
[3544.5] I really appreciate it.
[3545.5] I love what you're doing.
[3547.0] Keep in queue.
[3548.2] Let's do it.
[3549.1] Let's help the growth, a new garden
[3552.7] of inspiration for these women and trust yourself.
[3555.0] So thank you for joining us.
[3556.6] Make sure to check out our show notes for links to Daisy's books and resources.
[3560.9] And remember rebuilding is a process, but every step is a step in the right direction and
[3567.3] towards freedom and confidence and peace.
[3570.5] So do the things that you need to do to get that peace and resilience back in your life.
[3576.6] And we will see you next time.
[3585.7] bitches being back.
[3586.7] Good to be in back.