[0.0] Hey women owner on today's episode of the woman owned podcast. I am so excited to share with you a conversation that I had
[8.0] With Sarah young now. I have known Sarah young for years
[11.5] She ran a very successful public affairs agency
[15.7] Does a lot of work in the women's entrepreneurial ecosystem. She's just really thoughtful a huge champion of women entrepreneurs
[23.3] And I just couldn't wait to have her on the show
[25.5] So today Sarah is going to be walking us through the story of how she bought, scaled, and ultimately sold her public affairs agency.
[35.5] Sarah started at a company called MT&L. This was sort of, she was about 26 years old. She'd already been working in public affairs.
[44.5] And then she moves back sort of closer to her hometown and takes up employment inside this public affairs agency.
[51.5] Within a year, she and three of her colleagues inside the seven-person company decide to purchase the company from one of its founders,
[59.3] how she got the money, how she navigated that purchase. She's going to walk us through that story and then over the course of the next decade
[67.1] scaled it up to over 50 employees.
[69.5] In 2012, Sarah and her colleagues sold that organization to national public relations, which is one of the biggest PR firms in the country.
[77.6] She today continues as a managing partner, but she did go on to found San Piper Ventures.
[84.9] So San Piper Ventures is a VC fund that specializes in funding and providing venture capital
[92.2] to women owned companies that are doing innovative extraordinary things in their industries.
[98.2] I can't wait to share this conversation with you.
[101.3] I think if you particularly, if you have an advisory company and you're looking at scaling
[106.1] that if you're thinking about selling your company, Sarah offers just incredible wisdom
[111.6] in this conversation. So enjoy.
[115.9] Welcome to Woman-owned. The world's only podcast for ambitious women founders who want to scale
[123.1] from 200k to 2 million plus. I'm your host, Eleanor Beaton. Every Tuesday,
[129.3] I'll take you behind the scenes with case study interviews where leading entrepreneurs will
[135.2] reveal specific growth tools and tactics that are actually moving the needle in their companies.
[141.9] You'll learn exactly what they did, how they did it, and importantly how much money they
[148.3] made.
[149.5] And along the way, I'll share tips and insights from my own journey, growing my media and
[155.6] coaching company for my very first $200 contract to millions in revenue.
[162.3] you are an established business owner looking for practical and advanced scaling tips.
[168.8] The Woman-owned podcast is your essential weekly listening.
[173.3] Sarah Young, the place that I'd like to start is with your Woman-owned story.
[183.1] Tell us about how you became an entrepreneur in business leader in the first place.
[188.4] In some ways I think it was almost by accident and I always say, I don't think I ever heard
[194.8] the word entrepreneur growing up. I came from a family of healthcare professionals and so going into
[202.6] business was not something or even knew was an option. And so I had just moved back to the east coast
[209.9] and I joined a firm and what happened was with two other partners we sat down and we decided to
[219.9] by the company that I had recently joined.
[223.7] My two other partners had been with the company
[225.8] for quite some time.
[227.1] And we came up with a plan and we decided to dive in.
[234.0] I was about 26 at the time.
[236.5] And while donted and I, at the time,
[240.6] come up with a lot of reasons why it didn't make sense,
[243.1] I decided that I had two really wonderful partners.
[248.1] and we saw a path forward and we decided that we could make something really great
[256.1] happen and we decided to come up with some terms that we were comfortable
[262.5] proceeding so we bought the advisory firm, the professional services firm called
[267.0] MT&L and you know obviously that was we think now almost almost 25 years ago
[273.9] So, time goes quickly.
[277.3] So, 25 years ago, you joined MT Now as an employee, presumably.
[283.0] And this first sort of context for folks who might not be aware, this was like a sort of
[288.0] public relations advisory or how would you describe the work that MT Now was known for
[292.0] at the time?
[293.0] Yeah, so consulting services, so professional services and public relations, public affairs,
[300.3] We had a small office in Halifax.
[303.7] A lot of times people called a boutique firm.
[306.9] And we, there were including the three of us,
[309.9] there were about seven people in Halifax.
[313.0] And we, yeah, so predominantly project work,
[318.2] very focused on Nova Scotia.
[321.0] And it was predominantly some, you know,
[324.3] very public affairs and public relations focused.
[327.5] So I'm thinking about 26 year old Sarah, you know,
[330.3] who has like how long were you working at the firm
[332.7] before you decided with your partners,
[334.9] hey, this, maybe we should buy this.
[337.3] You know, like I'm so curious about that.
[339.7] It's such a plucky thing to do.
[341.5] Yes.
[342.3] Well, so I had been in Toronto working
[345.7] for an international consulting firm
[348.4] and had moved back to the East Coast.
[350.3] And so it was less than a year.
[353.4] And so the owner of the firm had decided
[356.7] that he was Ian Thompson decided that he was ready to sell the firm.
[361.6] And so the three of us had determined that we were looking at what the
[366.2] opportunity was.
[367.8] And I think for me, it was, you know, I always joke that at that point in my
[373.0] life, I would carry my passport around.
[375.5] I didn't feel like I was ready to commit to something really significant
[379.9] that I always wanted to.
[381.0] If I drove by the airport, it was ready to take off.
[383.6] I'm gonna pull a runner at any moment.
[386.6] Exactly.
[387.6] And so the idea for me,
[388.8] almost the more challenging,
[390.3] the most challenging part of it
[391.9] was trying to commit to something long term
[394.5] or I couldn't necessarily at 26 see myself.
[397.6] I wasn't ready to,
[399.7] was I ready to commit to something a year,
[402.3] two years, five years, 10 years.
[404.2] As I started, that was the process that I had to go through.
[407.5] The other part that was really challenging
[409.4] was just the capital accessing capital to actually buy a business.
[413.7] And the things I know now when I look back,
[416.5] and certainly the work that I've done,
[418.5] it certainly as a young woman going to the bank
[422.4] and trying to access capital.
[424.1] Now I look at it and do a,
[425.9] I certainly look at it and do a,
[427.5] wow, I was really naive.
[428.7] And so when I was getting a, no,
[431.5] now I look back and do a, huh,
[433.4] I should have pushed her to arrest these different questions
[436.0] or tried different approaches,
[437.2] But, you know, certainly I look back and do a, some of it was a, I decided that, and I think the part of this was, you know, I certainly say that my two other partners we looked at it and we spent a lot of time together.
[450.2] And we came up with a plan and we were really confident and what we saw was possible.
[458.2] And it was probably a year after we went forward that a lot of people said,
[463.2] oh, we doubted you or we didn't think you were going to make it happen.
[466.2] And I think one of the things we always said was we knew we could do it.
[470.2] And a lot of people said we didn't think you'd keep the lights on and we kind of did a,
[474.2] well, we're really glad people didn't say that to us because we were, you know,
[479.2] once we came up with the plan, we knew we were moving forward.
[482.2] But again, there was a little bit of a, we dove in and I certainly on,
[486.2] on speaking for myself, there's a little bit of a, I don't know if it's not
[489.9] invitation or just the, you don't know what you don't know. And that's not a bad
[494.1] thing. No, it's not. And my question like how, you know, you can answer this in as
[499.3] much or as little detail as you want, like how did you get the money? Was it like
[503.7] a business? Did you have to put together a business plan and get a business loan?
[506.5] Because I think that's the question that a lot of folks are probably asking
[510.4] themselves because it is. Like, and I know we'll get into the work that you do
[514.5] around making capital accessible, more accessible to women entrepreneurs. But back then,
[519.2] what, how did you make it happen? I mean, now I look back and I do a, I shake my head.
[525.1] So I would fit in the category of, you know, having to bootstrap it and I had to
[530.6] re-mortge my house. And I look back and do a, oh, I think I would have, I probably would have
[537.4] taken a few, I mean, and it was all, all fine. But I think it was, there was probably an element
[544.5] Again, it was 25 years ago.
[546.8] I think it was young woman showing up and doing a,
[550.5] there was an automatic, no, there was no exploratory talks,
[554.6] there was no, we'll consider it.
[556.5] And so I think it was, and there were a number of things
[559.9] when I look back that, and knowing what I know now,
[563.3] into some entrenched, I think barriers to a,
[566.9] not a lot of confidence in, or a lot of processes set up
[571.7] that expected a young woman proceeding.
[575.3] And so I probably would have explored some other avenues,
[578.4] but at the time I believe in this,
[580.9] I'm willing to invest in it and went forward in that way.
[585.1] So it certainly worked for me.
[587.4] I certainly know a lot more now
[589.9] that not to say that that wouldn't be an option,
[592.8] but I know in terms of advice that I give other people,
[596.4] there are ways to explore financing options.
[599.6] and I know that financial institutions and whether it's family and friends or other investment
[605.7] options or capital options that there are other ways to explore to.
[609.5] The other question that I have around this is, so it was the first time you were buying a business,
[615.2] how did you, what guidance did you get or how did you arrive at a number that felt good to you guys?
[622.1] And terms and a deal, because I think the mechanics of that, the details of that, the logistics
[628.5] of that, these very practical conversations around, well, how much should we buy it for? What should
[633.6] we be asking for in terms of the terms? What did you do? Any guidance around how you guys arrived
[641.1] into the decision or what was most helpful or most useful to you at that time?
[645.1] So one of the things that I've learned and I would say this at every stage of business is getting
[651.9] best and right advisors around you that are providing good counsel. And we did that at the outset.
[659.5] And so who are the people that can provide you with good insight? And we did that where who could
[666.6] provide us counsel on what were the right terms. And so rather than doing a, you know, trying to
[675.1] come up with something where that wasn't our area of expertise and getting that, getting that advice
[680.9] from others. And that's certainly something that have done throughout my career and we'll say that
[687.9] to others. And no matter what stage is that there are people who have either had the experience
[694.3] that you're about to go through or that's their professional area of expertise and bringing those
[700.4] people around you and making sure that the right people, you want the right people that not only
[704.7] it's skills and experience, but also the right personality fit.
[709.7] And for some, it's going to be whether it's a match your risk tolerance or whether they
[715.4] match your personality, but you want that trusted circle around you.
[720.4] And so from the outset, we just had, and it's not, when you're small, it's not going
[725.9] to be a massive or expansive circle, but having those few people who can provide that,
[731.3] or you might just be for a moment in time
[733.8] that you bring someone in
[735.1] and so that you don't spend time and energy cycles
[739.1] and not necessarily get it wrong,
[741.2] but get someone in and so we did that early on.
[744.3] And what were the specifically,
[746.1] so I think whether it's a lawyer
[747.7] or you can get someone who knows your industry as well.
[751.1] And so getting someone that is familiar with valuation
[754.5] around your and an accountant as well,
[757.3] but someone that knows the terms of your industry
[760.1] is important.
[761.5] And I think the other part is,
[763.7] depending on how you're structuring
[765.7] or what the terms of your agreement will look like,
[768.3] there's a little bit of a, at what cost.
[770.4] So if you're going to stay within the business,
[772.9] you want to make sure that it's,
[774.5] what does the relationship look like afterwards?
[776.9] And so sometimes people will talk about
[779.3] they maxed out in terms of valuation,
[782.3] but if they're going to continue on working there
[784.3] for X number of years,
[786.1] but someone feels done wrong by,
[788.6] and then they spend a few years that are absolutely miserable.
[792.0] So just figuring out where, what is most important?
[795.6] And I think that's one of the things
[797.5] that I'll always say to people is really figuring out
[800.6] what is most important to you
[802.2] when you're negotiating an agreement.
[804.6] And it may be length of time, it might be like,
[807.7] what are the things?
[808.5] And quite often, I think people get really fixated
[811.9] on a number and not to say a number isn't important,
[815.9] but it might not be the only thing
[818.0] that is the most important thing.
[819.7] So really asking yourself that question.
[821.9] And if you have a good advisor, an advisor is going to ask you that,
[825.5] like what does success look like?
[828.3] And there are things that are,
[829.6] and what is important to you in that moment
[833.0] might not be the same thing in five years.
[835.8] And so figuring that part out is really, really crucial.
[839.5] So you're 26 years old, you with two other partners,
[843.4] purchase MT&L.
[845.1] And ultimately you would go on to kind of spend the next decade or so scaling the company.
[852.7] Now, when we talk about scaling, we often have this lens, which is I think much more related
[858.5] to product-based companies or tech companies.
[862.6] I would love you to share what did it mean to you guys to quote-unquote scale an advisory
[871.5] company. Like what were the things that were most important in driving the
[877.1] growth and success of that company? I think there are a couple of things. I think
[882.6] one was thinking what was in the realm of possibility and doing a setting the
[891.7] horizon pushing it out there. And so I think for us it was a really looking and
[898.7] doing a what do we want to do and what inspires us and what motivates us.
[904.2] And we would have those conversations.
[907.0] And so we would say what kind of work do we want to do?
[912.4] And so, and I look at that and I'll often say,
[915.9] particularly for women-led businesses,
[918.4] we often from the very outset,
[920.7] we'll I think put the horizon,
[922.7] it's a little bit too limited and we limited at the outset.
[925.7] or from the very beginning, we said we want to be in the middle of the most exciting things that are happening in Atlanta, Canada.
[933.5] And we want to be in the middle of the most exciting things that are happening in Canada.
[938.1] And so by starting there, we knew we had to be bigger.
[944.3] We knew we had to have a certain size and we had to build a team a certain way.
[950.3] And we did that because that was the type of work that we wanted to be doing.
[954.9] And we knew that we could help our clients and organizations in the region.
[959.3] And we knew that we had to be thinking and approaching our work and outside of,
[965.3] we had to reach out beyond the geography.
[968.3] And so just that idea of setting a big, audacious goal and not doing a,
[976.3] let's just think small. And I think, you know, now the work that I do seeing that
[982.8] sometimes we try and do a, oh, just start small where that, you know, I'm a big
[989.6] believer in, you know, think big and you can decide you don't want to, but at
[993.9] least go through the exercise and do a, well, what's going to inspire you? And if
[997.4] you want to be the next, what, you know, fill in the blank, then go do it.
[1001.4] figure out how you're going to do it. And so for us, we set that as, set that as our goal. And so we
[1007.8] went about doing a what does that, what will that look like? How do we make that happen? And then I
[1013.4] think there's one thing about having a vision and declaring and saying we want to be in the middle of
[1020.3] really exciting things. And then I think the other side, implementation and execution is fundamental.
[1026.9] So no matter what you said as your goal and you can decide that you want to be a smaller business,
[1034.6] what are the milestones to get there? And how are you constantly checking in and seeing how you're
[1040.5] tracking? How are you executing? So you can, no matter what, no matter what you're doing,
[1047.7] no matter what is happening in your business, if you're not executing, then you're not going to be
[1052.2] successful and from a scalability perspective, execution is fundamental because each month,
[1058.8] if you're not hitting your targets, and that can be whether you're acquiring more clients,
[1063.4] if the revenue targets, if it's customer satisfaction, if they're marketing, whatever it is,
[1071.3] if you're not hitting those, that means you're not hitting your scale targets. And ultimately,
[1078.1] all of those targets are building up to that large vision.
[1082.0] And so for us, we had big aspirations,
[1086.7] but we also were constantly doing a,
[1089.0] well, what is it going to take us to get there?
[1091.5] And not to say that it was always perfect,
[1094.7] or that we wouldn't change plans along the way,
[1097.4] but we always knew that we'd sit down and do a,
[1101.3] what is it that we need to do to get the job done?
[1103.6] And I constantly see that with the founders
[1106.0] that I work with now, it's that you can have a plan,
[1109.7] but unless you execute that plan, then it's all for not.
[1113.0] So I wanna break down what you've shared
[1115.1] because I think it's fascinating.
[1116.2] So even this idea, we'll start with the sort of
[1118.1] the vision first.
[1119.1] We wanna be in the middle of the most exciting things
[1121.8] that are happening in Atlantic Canada
[1123.9] and in the middle of the most exciting things
[1125.8] that are happening in Canada.
[1127.4] That's a cool way to look at it.
[1129.3] You know what I mean?
[1130.1] So it sounds to me as though being in the middle
[1133.1] of exciting projects was the way that you,
[1136.7] the three you and your partners were able to set
[1138.6] the vision versus we wanna have a valuation of this
[1141.3] or we wanna be a, you know, $25 million company
[1145.0] or whatever it was, like rather than setting,
[1147.2] that those sort of targets maybe were secondary
[1149.7] to that larger vision.
[1151.8] Is that fair?
[1152.7] Oh absolutely.
[1153.6] And I would say, and again, this was 25 years ago
[1156.4] and that was always how built the company.
[1159.8] It was always a, and part of that was, well,
[1163.4] why do people show up every day?
[1165.5] Why do they want to be part of an organization?
[1168.4] And what is the purpose?
[1169.5] And so part of that was, and largely,
[1171.8] it was related to us too,
[1173.2] what are we going to be inspired to work hard?
[1176.9] And what is going to make us want to really roll up
[1180.0] our sleeves and dig in?
[1181.6] And for us, we wanted to help Thirgent grow.
[1186.6] we wanted to help our clients and organizations.
[1190.6] And so whether that was related to helping attract more newcomers to the region,
[1195.8] whether it was help grow more investment in the region.
[1199.6] And so we would identify what are the things that are happening and then who is it
[1204.6] that's related or connected to it and whether it was directly or adjacent and then how can
[1209.8] we be connected to it in some way.
[1212.4] And then what you end up doing is you have people who want to be part of that or connected to that
[1219.4] and join the team and they're inspired to be part of the work that happens in that way.
[1227.4] And so that naturally what you end up doing is, and again, when I go back to the execution part,
[1234.6] when you start to, you do a, if that's the type of work, you come up with the, well, if we're
[1239.7] focused on economic development and you know again 25 years ago you do it well what are
[1244.8] their areas that are growing who are the organizations that are connected to that who are we
[1249.8] working with already and who might be interested in doing more and how can we be helpful to them
[1256.0] and how can we play a role in contributing in some way and then what you start to you know
[1262.2] break it down a little bit more and whether that means having meetings with them or what work
[1267.6] if we done that's relevant to them.
[1269.9] And what does that execution look like
[1271.8] to help generate that into business
[1274.0] or actually working together?
[1276.0] And or is it the services that we offer
[1278.8] are there different services we should be developing
[1281.2] or looking at or what kind of people do we need to add
[1283.6] to the team?
[1284.6] And then next thing you know,
[1286.0] we're in the middle of those exciting things
[1287.8] that are happening.
[1288.6] And you have a team that's really inspired.
[1291.6] You have more organizations that associate you
[1294.4] with being attached to those big projects.
[1297.4] And for us, I think at the time, what we saw was it really helped grow the confidence, not only of our team.
[1304.4] And there was like a key moment. And I'll just add, I'll add this in. This is adding to your question. But it was at a time when we saw where people didn't necessarily always have the confidence of and it's interesting having the conversation now of, you know, we'd say we can walk into any board room in Toronto or Montreal or Calgary.
[1327.3] and our work stands up and our colleagues would sometimes say, are you sure about that?
[1332.1] And we would say, absolutely. And we'd say, and we have to make sure because our clients need to
[1339.3] walk into all of those boardrooms and they need to walk into a boardroom in London and New York.
[1345.7] And so we need to make sure that we're arming them and that we're doing work at that level.
[1352.3] And so what we started to do as ask our colleagues is that the type of work you want to be doing
[1359.2] and we want to be doing because we have a choice. We don't have to. And so our colleagues started
[1364.5] to say that it was really important. And so again, pushing that horizon even a little bit further
[1371.1] and making it just the aspirations and the motivations that much higher and people wanting to do
[1378.5] increasingly better work and with that came a pride which was really exciting to see.
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[1463.9] There's so many questions that I have around this. If we go to the execution, because that part is so important.
[1470.2] So I think you've done a really great job of sharing how you developed that vision and at a high level,
[1477.5] how you started to take that vision and turn it into sort of execution and implementation plans.
[1483.0] What were the big metrics in the advisory business that you found most helpful?
[1492.0] So, for instance, if it were perhaps if it were a software as a service, one of the core metrics
[1498.0] that they might be looking at is active users, let's say, or churn.
[1501.4] I'm curious from your perspective, what were some of the core things that you found
[1506.8] just were metrics that if we were just looking at these or measured these, they were fairly
[1511.6] consistent in terms of this was a good sort of metric to look at. What were those for you guys?
[1517.0] Obviously we would track revenue every month, but we typically our metric ended up being gross
[1524.1] margin. And so that would be our tracker from a monthly perspective. And the thing about professional
[1532.4] services is that they're fairly straightforward compared to a lot of other businesses and really
[1539.5] trying to track and compare to industry standards too. I think one of the things that
[1545.2] became really important for us was we got better at the rather than just looking backwards,
[1552.3] starting in historically looking forwards too. So how to get better at just capturing and looking
[1559.3] at what just happened, then trying to do a getting really getting much better at forecasting.
[1565.2] And that I can't remember exactly when that happened, but that was certainly a significant moment for us where it was, oh look, you know, that wasn't, we didn't have a particularly great month.
[1575.7] But by the time we figured that out we were, you know, a couple of months in where, you know, whether any adjustments or anything needed to happen or we could have, you know, a certain period of time head or that we would look and do a, wow, people are working a lot or we need to, you know, we should probably get someone else in, you know, a lot of time
[1594.8] past that being able to forecast ahead or tightening up the cycles.
[1600.0] And that's obviously gotten a lot better with technology too.
[1603.1] So the more data, the more information that can be used is really helpful.
[1607.7] How did your role in the company and the way that you spent your time shift over the years?
[1612.8] So presumably you were like a practitioner when you got started.
[1616.9] Can you just sort of briefly walk us through how your role in advisory shifted as you
[1624.5] grew the company and maybe what some of those like important shifts were.
[1629.3] So when we started again, there were we had it was a partnership of three.
[1634.3] And the way we approached it was we were in portfolios, the we had three partners.
[1641.0] And it's a bit of a running joke still to the stay that we were going to rotate
[1647.4] portfolios. And I took on I started off with people and culture and talent and
[1654.0] that we were going to shift, but then somehow whenever I would say, oh, it's time to shift.
[1658.4] My two partners would make eye contact. And so, so I ended up with it forever.
[1665.1] And so I still raise this and tell them that they owe me.
[1669.2] They do store point.
[1670.4] Exactly. Exactly. Because again, we were caught. We opened up offices and we grew
[1676.2] and there's so many things that happened. And I'm like,
[1679.3] yes, I remember all of it.
[1681.0] And yet they laugh like that.
[1684.0] Yes, I'm sorry.
[1686.0] So I, that was my portfolio.
[1691.0] And at the same time, I loved it because I think one of the things that we had said when
[1697.2] we were anticipating buying the company, we said wouldn't it be great to build a company
[1703.0] where people love to show up at work?
[1705.3] And that was important to me because I had been in places where I worked at the company
[1711.0] places where, you know, at the time, I remembered, you know, when I was young where there were
[1716.2] people who, you know, there were tears, lots of tears. And I just did eight, you know what? And
[1721.0] again, they're all, everyone will not have perfect days. But how do you create a place where people
[1727.6] are inspired? And so really wanted to have a place where people felt that most days they wanted
[1734.0] to be there and that they loved the work that they did and that they were learning and they were
[1738.4] curious and they respected the people that they were around. And so in that portfolio,
[1745.0] you know, we were constantly evolving, but our approach was always, you know, how can we bring
[1749.3] out the best in each other and how can we create this multiplier effect where people got into
[1755.3] rooms and, you know, create things happen. So that was my portfolio. Eventually we did do an
[1763.1] and we sold our company to national public relations.
[1768.2] And I will come back and just talk about in parallel,
[1771.2] just from as we were scaling and our growth plan on that.
[1775.1] And I became a managing partner.
[1778.4] And what I would say there,
[1781.3] there's the management of the company,
[1784.8] which is still being a practitioner.
[1787.9] So still working with clients,
[1789.5] which is a fundamental, was a fundamental part.
[1792.8] And at the same time, so the management,
[1795.5] but then also I think a key part
[1797.0] is around business development.
[1799.0] And I think in the managing partner role,
[1802.3] really doing a much more of an external role.
[1805.7] And I think that was a shift where it used to be,
[1809.0] there were three partners.
[1810.2] And then I think really more of a focus on
[1814.1] my time spent more time being in that external role
[1818.0] where there was attending more events,
[1820.1] more time I think in the community,
[1822.7] more time focused on time with clients in a client services role too.
[1828.2] And then I think the other part being a part of national,
[1831.7] there's a management company role as well, holding firm.
[1836.8] And so being on the board and I led the talent strategy.
[1840.8] And so developing a talent plan on behalf of the board.
[1846.8] And at that point over the years, national and the holding company acquired
[1852.0] companies in the US and in Europe and ultimately had 22 locations and seven brands.
[1858.5] And so spent time on that front as well.
[1862.3] And I think that goes back to my original point about the pushing the horizon.
[1869.3] I think one of the things that was really inspiring and motivating is that when we joined
[1874.2] national. We always said that we were really proud that a company national at the
[1882.5] time, which is the largest PR firm. Luke Boberdard, the founder, sought us out and
[1888.7] wanted, you know, at the time, he said he was looking for the best in class and
[1894.0] wanted us to join his company. They didn't have a presence on the East Coast.
[1899.6] But then I think for us, National would always talk about and use the Atlantic team as an example to the rest of the country of the great work and the great team.
[1911.6] And so we would always say, you know, there's nothing holding us back and so over the years, the team has done work, not just in across Canada, but in the US and in Europe, and has contributed to, you know,
[1927.6] whether it's the industry work and that's been because it has not had any limits and so
[1937.3] it's been really inspiring to see that happen. So all to say and I think that's always in saying
[1942.5] to people too you can figure out what role you want to have and so for me whether it's been
[1947.8] leading talent, I played roles around business development, board roles and then also as I said
[1954.2] managing partner for the Atlantic region, you know, through that period had also opened an
[1958.9] office and new from land and new Brunswick too. So cool. So I'd love to touch on, we don't have a ton
[1964.9] of time, but I'd love to touch on the exit, like selling the company. When you look back at that,
[1971.2] what was, you know, if you were to look at selling, you know, MTNL to national, I believe in 2012,
[1978.2] was it? You know, in 2012, what was your biggest insight from that experience that you think is
[1984.1] is transferable to other women, particularly who are running advisory type firms, that would
[1990.2] be applicable to them.
[1991.5] I think the biggest thing is to have an exit plan and have an exit plan from the very beginning
[1999.8] and that exit plan can change and say that to companies that you always want to be thinking
[2005.2] about what that off-ramp is or how you're going to sell your business.
[2010.4] And it might change once a month, but in your head, you're thinking about what it's going
[2016.5] to look like and you're planning for it because so many things are going to change.
[2021.6] So many things are you're going to change what's important to you.
[2025.3] The market's going to change.
[2027.1] Your business is going to change.
[2028.9] You can't wake up one day and say, I'm going to sell your business.
[2033.0] And for most, for the strong majority people, it's not going to just happen exactly as
[2037.5] you wanted.
[2038.7] If you've grown your business and you've spent so much time with it, it's not just a simple
[2044.5] administrative financial transaction.
[2046.4] There's also a psychological transition that you go through too.
[2050.3] And so always having that plan because you want to court that you want to figure out who
[2058.3] is the best organization or the best partner to hand it off to as well.
[2064.2] And in all likelihood, it's not necessarily going to be the first person that you're
[2068.7] you have a conversation with or might be in a completely different way or there might be a better
[2074.4] opportunity. So constantly sussing out or you're having those conversations in a different way
[2080.5] if in the back of your mind doing a rather than just having a client meeting or a partnership
[2085.7] meeting, if you know, way in the back of your mind you're doing a, could I see then my organization
[2091.2] being part of theirs? It's really helpful. So I would just say thinking about what is your exit
[2097.2] strategy almost from day one is a really helpful thing because you build it differently and you
[2102.8] plan differently from the outset. I'd love to wrap up by talking a little bit about what we talked
[2109.8] about your third chapter. So you sold M.T. Nellton National PR, our managing director for that
[2116.4] organization. You were one of the founders of Sandpiper and I let you share a little bit about
[2121.5] what the work that San Piper does. But I'm curious, like what is a third chapter, you know,
[2128.0] what have you learned about it? Tell us about that. Sure. I think there's a little bit of a
[2133.1] pattern in my life. Just before COVID, I've launched a venture fund with two other women
[2140.3] in investing in innovative founders who are solving big world problems and technology companies
[2148.7] and whether that's in health environment or work or education of the future, and they need to have
[2155.1] a woman founder. And we launched a fund and raised over $20 million and we've invested in
[2164.9] 13 companies and we're in the midst of raising another fund right now. And it's been really inspiring
[2171.4] working with these women entrepreneurs that are just making amazing things happen. And even
[2176.3] of the exposure that we get to so many other entrepreneurs. And so as part of that, I think what
[2183.2] I'm doing this year is I'm doing a fellowship that's really focused on third chapter and so this
[2190.3] fellowship, I'm spending the year in Boston and it's a program at Harvard where they, it's called
[2196.5] the Advanced Leadership Initiative and they call it the third chapter which I was saying I had
[2200.7] never really heard of that before. And this idea of you've built up this experience, apparently wisdom
[2208.0] too. And how are you going to use that for your next chapter? And what does that look like? And
[2215.6] in this particular one, and what kind of impact can you have? And how does that scale? And I've
[2222.1] fallen in love with this idea. And I think it's so amazing. And it's really good. I've said to
[2227.3] to so many people, I love the way of looking at it
[2230.3] because I know so many people who have so much to offer.
[2234.7] And I think sometimes when we almost look at
[2237.5] that this phase where it's,
[2239.7] you get to a certain point in your career
[2241.4] where it's, whether it's a, you're wrapping up
[2244.3] or if people start to say like,
[2246.0] when are you going to go golfing or retire
[2249.6] or it's like this.
[2250.4] It's like this.
[2251.2] It's like this fade out.
[2254.1] or it's almost like a William as well, just stay in that role.
[2258.6] And this has been this total shift where it's like,
[2262.8] oh, your best thinking is right now.
[2265.7] And you gained all of this insight.
[2268.7] And now how are you going to deploy it,
[2270.8] but deploy it in a way that you can focus on
[2274.8] deploying it in a way that's going to have
[2277.2] the most impact, whatever that looks like for you.
[2279.6] So for some people, it might be on boards
[2283.2] some people might be in launching a company, it can be many different ways.
[2288.6] And so I'm really focused on looking at how the investment in women entrepreneurs, and
[2296.1] this is globally, has been stuck at this 2% and really trying to understand what is the
[2300.8] lever that can accelerate that, and at the same time building out the network for Sam Piper.
[2307.2] And I just, at the same time, love the idea of if more people were thinking of this third
[2314.4] chapter, I look at and do a, it's just so motivating to think of how do we take the wisdom,
[2321.3] how do we take our experience and do a, how can we each apply it?
[2325.1] And maybe it's your own organization, but it's a little bit of a very different way of thinking
[2329.6] of a, that again, that fade out or I'm just going to wind down versus a redeploying differently.
[2336.1] that might not be working full time.
[2338.4] It might be working for some people that are working more.
[2341.5] It might be in a different capacity,
[2343.4] but it's figuring that out.
[2345.3] And so I've found a very inspiring
[2347.7] and have been around people, again,
[2349.8] who are very motivating.
[2351.1] So I'm a big supporter of the concept.
[2354.0] I do have to acknowledge it first.
[2355.4] I had never heard the concept
[2356.7] and I kept calling it last chapter,
[2358.5] but my cohort very quickly corrected me.
[2362.1] So it's a third chapter, not last chapter.
[2364.7] That's right.
[2365.7] It's not a death wish.
[2367.2] Exactly.
[2368.0] Exactly.
[2368.7] Yeah.
[2369.5] So, Sarah Young, I so appreciate you sharing your wisdom
[2374.8] and story with us here today.
[2376.1] I know so many women entrepreneurs will really
[2378.8] be able to not only relate to aspects of the story
[2381.9] that you've told, but also draw a lot of inspiration
[2384.9] from it to help them grow.
[2386.1] So I thank you.
[2387.4] Well, thank you.
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