[4.8] Hi there, I'm Jason Lowe and this is Life After News. This episode is a step by step playbook for making a bold career move without losing yourself or your paycheck.
[14.8] CBS New York reporter Andrea Klein-Thomas spent years preparing for her life after news and now she's sharing how she did it.
[22.0] It was about two things, fighting the next best thing for you, not the next best thing, but the next best thing.
[27.6] And rewriting your story. Andrea Klein-Thomas, thank you for joining us today.
[32.6] You started your career in Meghan, Georgia.
[35.6] And like so many of us in our business,
[38.6] starting the small market and worked your way up,
[40.6] you worked in Nashville, Charlotte, Philadelphia,
[42.6] and then ultimately New York.
[43.6] Yes.
[44.6] Was New York the goal?
[46.6] No.
[47.6] I'm from the DC area.
[49.6] So actually, WRC was the goal.
[51.6] That's, you know, the legacy station that I grew up watching,
[55.6] so that was always the goal.
[57.6] Oh, that's interesting.
[58.6] Yeah.
[59.6] But New York is a good goal, too.
[60.6] Yeah, I mean, it just actually, I came to New York.
[65.0] Yeah, it was just actually very different.
[66.7] I went to Philly because of its proximity to DC.
[69.5] I really wanted to get closer to home,
[71.2] but by that point, coming to New York wasn't like the goal or...
[76.6] I don't know, even feeling like I had made it.
[80.0] It was just never a part of the plan.
[82.1] I went to New York to have more exposure, actually.
[86.0] I was like, it's the center of the communications universe.
[88.8] And so I figured that I would have a lot more exposure
[91.9] to a lot of other things,
[93.2] because at that point I was really thinking
[95.0] about what my next would be.
[97.1] Okay, so you, I'll actually start with a couple of podcasts
[100.5] ago when my guest said,
[103.1] the she believes that there's a finite amount of news
[105.5] that anyone can do.
[107.3] And that's different for everybody.
[109.5] Some people can do it forever,
[110.8] and some people can do it for 10 years, five years,
[113.3] 30 years, whatever.
[114.5] So you decided even before you got to New York,
[117.0] This wasn't for you for long term.
[119.4] Is that when the moon just hadn't?
[121.1] Yeah, I mean, I just saw what was happening in the industry.
[124.5] And I was very realistic about it.
[126.8] The news habits had changed and I didn't feel like
[129.3] the industry was responding with the urgency necessary
[132.6] to meet the moment.
[133.9] And so I never am one who wants to be caught off guard
[137.6] or flat-footed.
[138.6] And I said, you know, if this wasn't going to be my forever,
[142.8] where could I position myself where opportunity could come
[145.6] with my skill set?
[146.7] and it was between going home to DC
[149.6] and making it feel like a warm hug
[151.8] or coming to New York and having exposure to things
[154.7] that I had never had exposure to.
[157.1] So while I was working in New York,
[158.9] I was secretly like going to a lot of different events
[163.3] and asking people what they did
[165.8] and what it looked like and just being exposed to storytelling
[169.7] on different platforms, which is what I was ultimately
[172.2] just so interested in.
[173.9] So before you left WCBS, you worked for a couple of years
[179.5] to figure out what you wanted to do
[181.1] and how to execute that plan?
[183.9] Oh yeah, I mean, I had from Nashville,
[185.9] which was my favorite job.
[187.3] I say I started planning my next in a job
[191.2] that I loved with people that I loved in a city
[193.3] that I absolutely loved.
[195.3] But because I always saw that the industry was changing.
[198.7] And I was asking myself,
[200.7] do I want to be covering snow at a certain age?
[205.9] Do I wanna be on the side of the road?
[208.1] And the answer was no.
[210.1] But I also, maybe I'll try, maybe I want to do network,
[215.2] but then it came to the point where that,
[217.1] when I came to New York and that started becoming
[220.2] part of the conversation, I was like,
[221.7] I don't wanna live out of a suitcase.
[223.5] Like I don't want that lifestyle.
[224.9] It's not actually very glamorous.
[227.3] You know, the rose-colored glasses are very much off.
[229.6] I don't want that life.
[230.9] So yes, slowly started to plan.
[234.9] It wasn't concerted, but I just was like,
[237.2] I might come to a point where what I want
[240.6] and what the industry can provide might be at odds.
[243.6] And if I become, if I come to that crossroads,
[247.0] what would happen?
[249.0] And then you came to that crossroads in 2022
[252.7] when you accepted a mountain court media.
[255.5] Tell us what that is and how you made that transition.
[259.0] Okay, so what it is now is not what I intended it to be.
[263.5] Okay.
[264.3] So yeah.
[265.1] So yeah, I mean, I think that's the thing is that people think that they need to have
[269.0] all the dots connecting and everything all figured out, but that's not what the case was.
[274.3] When I was planning to leave and it wasn't again, it was years long decision making
[279.9] where I just gave myself agency to ask myself what I wanted and what I needed and always
[286.5] positioning myself for growth and I was in a place that was not growing anymore.
[291.0] And I never want to be, that's how you get stuck is when you're in places that don't
[294.6] grow.
[295.8] And so how else could I use my skills?
[297.9] And I was like, well, I really love storytelling.
[300.4] I want to do it forever.
[302.6] But I also want to story tell on a lot of different platforms.
[306.0] And if you asked me in 2022, I said, I'm going to find ways to tell stories and then figure
[311.5] out the platforms where those stories can live.
[315.3] that people were consuming media in so many different ways. And I was just so hungry to get to know
[321.1] all of these different platforms. Well, I thought that was like long-form specials, things of that
[326.9] nature. And I was having some meetings and that those doors just never opened. The door that
[331.8] immediately opened was live events with journalism. So with the Atlantic, there was a live event
[339.1] that they have a festival.
[341.4] And I produced festival sessions and stuff like that.
[345.4] That felt like very much like the newsroom.
[347.3] The next thing that happened was,
[349.7] I knew somebody who was bringing the griot.
[353.3] So by Rinalin had bought the Black News channel
[355.6] and he owned the griot.
[357.0] So he was bringing the griot,
[358.1] which was a website to TV.
[359.7] And she asked me to come on to be part of the team
[362.4] to launch the TV arm.
[364.0] The other thing that happened was a friend had a business
[367.7] And she wanted to connect better with her audience,
[371.7] kind of like a financial, gamified financial kind of product.
[375.8] And she called it business development.
[377.1] I had no idea what business development was.
[378.9] And I said, yes.
[380.1] So really the first year, I just said yes to everything
[383.0] that kind of came my way and parsed out
[385.4] what I really liked, what I didn't like,
[388.0] and have honed things down.
[389.5] So now, Mountain Court Media is a strategic storytelling
[392.7] agency where I like to say we help our clients
[395.2] more authentic and impactful stories about themselves
[398.2] that work in each other, how that looks right now
[401.3] is a corporate story, media training,
[404.7] producing creative product projects
[406.9] and producing live events.
[408.8] And so that's what I do on that side of the business.
[412.1] That live events is an interesting notion
[414.3] because it's kind of like producing TV except the audience
[416.7] is not behind the camera, they're actually in the room.
[419.3] How is that?
[420.8] I love it so much because it's an instant dopamine hit.
[424.9] So, you know, so many people think, you know, with TV that you're getting the feedback,
[429.4] it's like, no, I'm speaking into a camera, you know, with very few people around if
[434.8] the people even in the studio are paying attention to what we're saying, right?
[438.4] But to work on a project, to have time where you're having 30 minute conversation so you
[444.4] can get into the weeds, you can get into the nuance, you can get into the depth.
[448.9] That's amazing.
[450.2] people who don't always get a platform, bringing them as guests to add color and context
[457.3] to the conversations.
[458.3] I'm a sucker for conversations.
[460.7] That's amazing.
[461.7] And then when you're working on something for so long, and you know kind of like those
[465.3] punch lines, like you know the questions that will get the response and then the audience
[470.8] response that oohs the us, the clapping, like then it's just like, yes, it landed.
[477.2] like you get the instant feedback, the head nods.
[481.2] And so I remember standing in the back of the room.
[486.6] Maybe it was last year.
[488.1] And I was like, man, I was really worried
[491.0] that what I produced nobody would care about when I left.
[495.2] Like would anybody care about what I care about?
[498.6] Could I tell stories in a way that people cared about?
[501.5] And the room was packed.
[502.9] And it was packed with people about ages and all races
[506.3] and all socioeconomic statuses and was a criminal justice panel,
[510.8] which I'm like really passionate about.
[512.9] And I was like, that I used to fear
[515.9] that I wouldn't be relevant in this way.
[518.3] And I am in fact moving the needle.
[520.6] And so so gratifying.
[522.0] And I was just so proud of myself.
[524.4] That's amazing.
[525.2] I love this format because it is in-depth conversations,
[528.3] but having that instant feedback would be amazing.
[530.6] Maybe we should figure out a way to do live podcast.
[532.8] Yes, yes.
[534.1] Do it on you stream it on YouTube.
[535.8] And then you get the chat section, absolutely.
[539.0] That's cool, that's a great idea.
[540.6] So one of the things you said too is you asked yourself
[542.8] what you wanted and then I listened to an interview
[544.8] where you said when the first time you asked yourself,
[546.9] you didn't know the answer at all.
[549.1] And I think that's a play, a lot of us,
[551.5] we know we need something different,
[552.8] we don't know what we want because we've been trained
[554.6] to want this, we want the next job,
[556.4] the next promotion, the next market.
[558.1] And then when you really sit back and look,
[560.4] think about it, like what advice are you give to someone?
[564.0] Like if you don't know what you want,
[566.2] how do you figure it out?
[567.8] How do you find it?
[569.0] I did a lot of different things.
[571.3] A lot of people ask themselves in terms of a title,
[574.6] and you've got to remove that weight from you.
[577.8] And just say, what am I really good at?
[579.8] What do people always ask my advice about?
[583.6] What do they come to me for?
[584.9] I've emailed friends to say, when you think about me,
[587.7] what are some adjectives that come to mind?
[590.7] I got advice where they said, map out your ideal day.
[595.3] And so I did that.
[596.7] And you have to be like serious
[598.1] when you're doing these things.
[599.4] And so my ideal day had me waking up
[602.6] and working out and working on multiple projects
[605.1] throughout the day and going to business meetings
[608.0] and going to networking events.
[610.5] And then I looked at it and I was like,
[611.9] this is nice, that was a cute exercise.
[613.8] There's no way this is happening
[616.2] within the framework of local news.
[619.2] And so I kind of shut it, closed my little journal, and then it was last year that I was reminded of like,
[625.8] oh my gosh, your days now are exactly minus the working out in the morning. I'm still working on that.
[631.6] You don't think that? Right, right. I'm working on it. But they're exactly, my days are exactly
[638.5] how I imagined the best day being. Yeah.
[643.2] That's amazing. Because when you write it out and then don't even kind of forget about it,
[646.9] But then two or three years later, you rediscovering like,
[649.1] I'm actually doing that.
[650.3] I'm actually doing it.
[651.7] Because I think there's something,
[652.8] it's not even just like the woo woo manifestation.
[655.2] I think there is something when you start defining
[658.0] what it is that you need.
[660.0] Because journalism, the whole idea
[661.8] that you are never the story and you are frowned upon.
[665.6] If you are ever a part of the story,
[667.8] now things are changing, right?
[669.0] Because there's personality that we understand
[671.2] the audience is really care about.
[673.5] But as I was coming up, you know, they're like, change your hair.
[678.0] This is what you wear.
[679.4] This is the cadence of your voice.
[681.3] This is how your voice tone needs to be to resonate.
[684.8] Your nails, like everything was just so prescribed.
[688.8] And you're making small concessions over time, but they accumulate.
[693.6] So it came to a point where I became unrecognizable to my own self,
[699.1] because I was checking them.
[701.1] I was saying, this is what I can do.
[703.8] Not, is this what I want to do?
[706.1] And those are very different questions.
[708.8] We are multi-talented as journalists.
[711.0] So we can do a lot of things,
[712.9] but that doesn't mean that's what we want to do.
[715.5] And when I started asking myself,
[717.0] what do I really want to do?
[718.8] I also started paying attention to my body
[721.4] because my mind, I can think myself out of a lot of things,
[727.0] but when my body would light up,
[728.8] or have the reverse reaction.
[732.4] I started noticing when that was happening,
[736.0] what was happening and who I was with.
[738.8] So I could figure out what was warm, what felt good,
[741.7] and started trying to draw the dots
[743.9] between that.
[745.4] A little bit into that.
[746.2] Yeah.
[747.8] So then you kind of morphed again or evolved a little more
[753.1] and you decided to do the next best thing podcast,
[757.3] which it's the next best thing, not the next best thing.
[760.3] Yeah, right, right, right, right.
[762.8] Absolutely.
[764.1] So does what that is and how that came about?
[766.5] Well, so the next best thing was really all about
[769.9] keeping a promise to myself.
[771.7] And again, wanting a space where I could tell stories
[774.3] that didn't have to go through a filter,
[776.9] didn't have to go through other people's expectations.
[781.5] Didn't have to go through an editorial process
[783.9] that didn't understand my lived experience
[786.2] or didn't fully value my lived experience.
[789.9] So it wasn't anything super strategic.
[792.9] It was just this is you have a voice
[797.1] and you wanna tell stories.
[798.8] And I have always been obsessed with conversation
[802.1] as I said earlier, but also success and growth
[806.1] in grappling with a question of being black
[809.5] in non-black spaces and being in systems
[813.0] of always feeling like I'm hitting my head
[815.2] against a ceiling so many times,
[817.6] how do you circumvent that?
[819.2] How are you still remain successful
[821.4] when you're navigating systems
[822.8] that were created without you in mind?
[824.5] And so as I was navigating a transition,
[827.8] I don't do anything alone.
[829.7] And so I was like, let me talk to other people
[833.1] who have already done this,
[834.3] who were 10 steps ahead of me.
[836.0] I mean, on the most basic level,
[838.5] it was I needed some advice to figure this out.
[841.4] And that's how it started.
[843.3] I didn't care if only myself and my mother listened to it.
[846.8] It wasn't about that.
[848.4] It was really about me finding my voice.
[851.8] And that's exactly what happened.
[854.8] Me exercising my voice in a different way,
[857.7] just having the conversations that I cared about.
[860.3] And also, I was really afraid that, okay,
[864.6] I had this grand idea of maybe what could possibly happen,
[868.0] but if I ended up in a cubicle, in a job that was boring,
[873.2] You know, what is it about journalism that I'm just not willing to give up?
[877.3] I'm willing to give up a lot of things, but what am I not willing to give up?
[880.4] And it was the interview.
[882.1] That was something I was just not willing to give up.
[884.7] And so I was like, well, I don't need a company to do that.
[887.5] I can do that on my own.
[889.2] And so that was just like my little space of joy that I wanted to create from just for myself,
[896.1] but it blossomed into something so much bigger.
[899.8] I think what you said is true. I think the fear so many of us have about leaving is leaving that
[905.3] energy, the collaboration, the conversation and working in a cubicle all day by yourself and not
[911.4] talking to anybody. That would for all most of us that would just be, I mean, that's hell.
[916.9] Yes. Literally.
[919.0] So we're sure just like not hearing different opinions, not meeting people and hearing how they
[927.2] made it out of a tough situation.
[929.5] And that's the thing is too, when I was seeking,
[932.1] I would watch shows, I would listen to podcasts,
[935.5] I was reading books to try to figure out
[937.9] how to navigate this feeling that I had.
[940.1] I didn't have the language for it,
[941.7] I didn't have the data to figure out
[944.2] what I should specifically be doing.
[946.5] I couldn't, I didn't really find things
[949.0] that spoke directly to me.
[950.4] I could take a little nugget here
[951.7] and a little nugget there,
[952.8] but in terms of speaking to my direct experience,
[955.1] I didn't really find many conversations that could do that.
[958.8] And so I wanted to have a more nuanced conversation
[962.5] that better reflected what I was experiencing
[965.3] and journalism taught me if I'm experiencing it,
[968.0] a lot of other people are experiencing it as well
[971.1] and have it, you know, a lot of people get what they want
[974.4] and then they're like, and then we lived happily ever after.
[977.5] I was like, no, no, no.
[979.0] I want to understand when you didn't know
[981.4] what the outcome would be,
[982.8] how were you taking calculated risks?
[985.2] What were you thinking about?
[987.2] You know, things of that nature?
[988.7] Like what was the first step you took?
[991.1] Things like that.
[991.9] I wanted to break down those that ambiguous
[995.0] messy middle part and really break that down.
[998.1] And it is changed my life honestly.
[1001.0] It really has changed my life.
[1002.5] And what ways?
[1003.4] From the advice, it's allowed me not to have the same pitfalls
[1006.5] that a lot of other people do, especially as it pertains
[1009.3] to being a new business and making money.
[1014.5] I make money.
[1015.4] I've replaced my income.
[1017.7] If you look at the statistics on women-owned businesses,
[1020.6] there are a lot of them created,
[1021.9] but a lot of women don't make money.
[1023.8] And I have.
[1024.8] And so that's because of the advice that I've received
[1028.8] of don't do this, do this.
[1030.3] I just do it.
[1031.8] I'm not trying to reinvent a wheel
[1034.1] and trying to come up with something for myself.
[1036.5] I'm just like, oh, it worked for them.
[1038.1] Let me try it for me.
[1039.3] It's just kind of that simple.
[1041.1] But what it also did in the sharing of the clips
[1045.2] is that it rebranded me in a way that I didn't even know
[1048.2] that I needed.
[1049.0] I didn't think of myself as having a brand.
[1051.6] And again, that's the way that you're taught in journalism
[1055.0] is to not to ever really think about yourself.
[1057.8] But we all have a story being written about us.
[1060.5] And the question is, do you want to participate
[1062.7] in that narrative or not?
[1064.1] Because the narrative is going to happen regardless.
[1066.5] And so sharing those clips, if you had Googled me,
[1070.4] you're gonna see them covering murders,
[1072.2] you're gonna see them covering rikers.
[1074.5] And that's not necessarily what I wanna be known for
[1077.0] professionally because that,
[1079.2] unless you wanna go into like the criminal justice space
[1082.7] or whatever, which I didn't really,
[1084.4] I thought I might, but I really didn't want to.
[1086.7] That doesn't actually serve me, right?
[1089.1] And so, and if you want more opportunities,
[1092.8] people need to be able to see you in their space.
[1096.2] And so having these conversations and sharing the clips
[1099.3] gave me more breath and depth so people could see me
[1103.1] differently.
[1103.9] And so when people meet me now or they're like,
[1107.3] oh, I've watched your clips on LinkedIn or, oh,
[1109.9] I've seen what you're doing there.
[1112.8] And so I'm known in a much different way.
[1115.9] And I didn't even know that was happening.
[1117.5] That wasn't the goal when I was sharing.
[1119.2] I was just like, hey, went to listen to my podcast.
[1121.5] I had a cool interview.
[1122.6] But that's what it did.
[1123.5] And so it opened up business opportunities
[1126.0] That's great. That's really great advice too to kind of put yourself out there.
[1129.8] But congratulations on monetizing your business and making it work because you're right.
[1134.7] A lot of people open businesses and a lot of people close businesses and the fact that you stayed at it and took good advice.
[1139.9] And would you say you were cautious or you were just kind of knew what you were doing?
[1145.1] No, I didn't know anything of what I was doing. No way. And no idea. No idea. No clue. No idea.
[1152.1] I think it's, I don't, I didn't come at it
[1155.7] from a scarcity mindset.
[1157.2] I gave myself two years, which felt like a contract, right?
[1160.5] I was like, I'm gonna throw the kitchen sink at it.
[1162.6] I cannot quit.
[1163.9] I cannot complain like I have to just keep going for two years.
[1168.4] And after two years, then I could reassess
[1171.2] if this is the right thing for me.
[1172.6] If not, then I'll get a job, no big deal.
[1175.0] At least I tried it.
[1175.9] I got it out of my system.
[1179.2] I've heard a couple other people say,
[1180.3] that setting timelines and setting goals don't be unrealistic.
[1184.3] You're not going to do this in four months or six months.
[1187.1] It takes time.
[1188.8] It takes a lot of time and it's so much work.
[1191.5] Like in terms of entrepreneurship, I always tell people like if you can find a job that you love,
[1196.0] do that. It's just a lot easier.
[1198.8] Like actually just do that.
[1200.3] But the thing was that there was nothing.
[1202.4] I didn't find anything that I loved and the things that I was applying for.
[1206.8] I didn't get. And so I wasn't just going to sit around and, and, you know, submit, you know, countless
[1215.5] resumes. I was just gonna make make it happen for myself. And that's how I felt like in, in
[1221.0] journalism, I just felt like I was always just like
[1225.2] having to prove my, my worth. They said, you know, I felt like the goal line kept moving as to like,
[1231.2] Oh, you do this while you now you're, you know,
[1233.7] I was like a Swiss Army knife.
[1235.8] I could do everything, right?
[1237.8] And, but I was never compensated for it.
[1241.6] And so the goal line just kept moving.
[1244.0] And so I was like, I'm just tired of putting my future,
[1247.5] my financial future, especially in somebody else's hands.
[1251.5] It is just time for me to take the reins.
[1253.7] I'm smart enough.
[1255.0] I live in New York City.
[1256.6] I have done the work.
[1258.2] I have expanded my network.
[1260.0] I've been helpful to people.
[1261.9] I have two degrees.
[1263.0] Like all of this stuff has to count for something.
[1266.1] And if it doesn't count for anything,
[1267.7] then that's my problem, right?
[1269.7] Like it has to count for something.
[1271.3] I don't know what it counts for,
[1273.1] but I gotta figure that out.
[1274.5] And every day in journalism,
[1276.0] you have to figure stuff out quickly.
[1278.6] And so I just leaned into literally
[1282.1] all the steps we take to tell stories every day
[1284.9] just took the ID constructed it,
[1286.8] literally just deconstructed it
[1288.5] and applied it to myself.
[1291.1] Right.
[1291.4] So the Swiss Army knife, that's a great analogy,
[1293.7] because it is.
[1294.2] It's true.
[1295.0] We're multifaceted, multi-talented.
[1296.5] We can figure anything out.
[1297.8] And that's what led to the rewrite.
[1300.3] Yes.
[1301.3] So don't put the rewrite is.
[1303.2] Yes, the rewrite is a community of journalists
[1306.3] and storytellers who are invested in reassessing,
[1309.8] reimagining, and reinventing their careers
[1311.9] in the face of the instability.
[1313.7] And the rewrite came because I was going through this
[1316.3] transition and talking to all these people. And even though I had a lot of help, I mean,
[1321.9] every dollar I've made has come from a friend. And it's been almost three years now.
[1325.8] I'm living around with that. Yeah, no, it's great. It's much better actually.
[1330.2] Help each other. Yeah, help each other out. And so I was just like, wow, I am learning
[1335.8] so much. I'm in these meetings. They're meetings that I just, I mean, they're blowing
[1341.3] my mind. Constantly, I'm drinking from a fire hose every day and just taking in all of
[1348.3] this information. I thought I'm in New York City. I'm in the streets. I'm interviewing
[1352.8] all the people from the penthouses to the politicians to, you know, every day folks.
[1358.7] I am exposed. Absolutely not. I was not exposed. Another misnomer was, oh, people know
[1365.3] what I do. People have no clue what you do. People have no clue what you bring to the
[1371.0] table. I liken it to being in the military. We say thank you for your service. But do we
[1375.8] know what a soldier does? Do we know what a staff sergeant even means? What does that even mean?
[1380.2] We have no idea. Same thing for journalists. No one actually knows what you do even if they consume
[1385.2] the product that you put out every single day. It's not saying like, oh, this is an accountant.
[1389.6] And so then we assume they're great with numbers. They're, you know, project management. They
[1394.2] They're organized.
[1395.2] Like, there's no natural associations to what journalist skills are and how that can be applied
[1402.1] elsewhere.
[1403.1] So I was doing all right because I had friends who were running interference for me.
[1410.7] At the same time, I'm seeing all of these layoffs happening.
[1415.2] I know I did things while I was in that none of my friends were doing.
[1420.2] And I was like, wow, what's happening to all these people who are now in a job market?
[1426.1] Because it's not like the great recession, 2007, 2008, where those jobs eventually came
[1431.8] back.
[1432.9] These jobs are not coming back in that same number.
[1436.0] So mathematically, this is not an emotional conversation.
[1440.3] Mathematically, most people are going to have to transition to something else that they
[1445.6] have not done before.
[1447.6] Or are they going to do that when they have completely different language?
[1450.7] They have a completely different protocol.
[1452.8] They're using technology, which journals don't really use technology.
[1457.0] I mean, we APE and P.S. I mean, that's I news.
[1460.9] We've been using that forever, right?
[1462.9] Just the newest version, but we're not like exposed to the new technology that's happening
[1468.0] at the scale that is happening in other companies.
[1471.0] What if I could make people, like I can make the people who are teaching me available
[1477.0] to others to help them with any transition.
[1480.9] Specifically, those who are in it right now to say,
[1483.8] hey, I hope you stay in forever.
[1487.5] But if you don't, the time to prepare is not after.
[1491.6] You know, it's not when you don't have any options.
[1494.1] The time to prepare is now, because that's why I'm in my position
[1497.6] is because I prepared years before I needed it.
[1500.3] And so that's how it started.
[1502.6] And so we just put it on Instagram.
[1505.3] Hey, hello, little website to collect emails.
[1508.7] If you're interested, and I just send out emails
[1511.5] of just like advice that I've gotten.
[1513.4] And then we would take the surveys.
[1515.2] And from that, we were starting to create, you know,
[1518.3] have webinars from webinars.
[1520.6] We created a course literally took all the surveys,
[1524.0] which was more than 100 surveys.
[1526.2] And everybody was asking pretty much the same questions.
[1529.6] And so we found people to be answers
[1532.4] to those specific questions that everybody had
[1535.4] and then provided that.
[1536.9] And now it's a community,
[1539.3] because that's just more cost effective
[1541.8] where I've launched the next best thing community.
[1544.0] So it's pairing the podcast and the rewrite for journalists.
[1548.2] And so you have access to people
[1549.5] who are in a lot of different industries,
[1551.3] because that's a problem journalists have,
[1552.8] is that you don't really know others
[1555.0] who are not in the industry.
[1558.2] So it's for people across industries
[1562.0] And so we have webinars and workshops really,
[1565.8] not just webinars,
[1566.7] because it's not passive, it's very active.
[1569.0] And then every week I send out,
[1570.8] okay, I really need you to work on this this week.
[1573.1] I need you to work on that.
[1574.1] There's like, there's an accountability measurement.
[1576.4] And then there's also a sharing of resources.
[1579.7] So somebody needs this, like just today,
[1582.5] they're like someone's starting a business.
[1584.9] And I was like, you know,
[1586.3] link them with my attorney that helped me start my business
[1589.5] so that they can get their LLC set up.
[1591.3] So all of that is happening in the community.
[1593.7] But outside of the community is paid.
[1595.6] But outside of that, there's tons of free resources,
[1598.4] tons of free resources.
[1600.1] Right, so there's kind of multiple tiers.
[1602.2] There's some free things you can go on and kind of look
[1604.0] and get it at you.
[1604.9] You get a taste of it and then there's a paid tier too.
[1607.0] But even the transferable skills guy,
[1609.7] which is free, I downloaded it and read through it.
[1611.9] I thought it was fascinating that you,
[1613.8] there's a list of jobs that journalists can do.
[1616.0] Yes.
[1616.9] Just knowing even, you don't even necessarily think about,
[1619.4] which cuts through so much right there.
[1622.3] And then the other thing I thought was really fascinating
[1624.8] was the, here's how you should describe what you do
[1628.0] instead of saying get rid of all the TV lingo that we use.
[1632.2] And I just pulled a few of them.
[1633.6] I just wanna like,
[1635.0] data-driven integration marketing campaigns.
[1637.8] We understand that.
[1639.0] Understand the dynamics of short-form storytelling.
[1642.5] Create award-winning shareable videos,
[1645.3] deep understanding of digital landscape,
[1647.6] engaging with key audiences.
[1650.0] Those are all things that we do.
[1651.4] We just don't know how to put them in those words.
[1654.4] Yes.
[1655.2] And that was one of the things
[1656.3] that I was sitting in meetings
[1658.0] and they had all this corporate speak.
[1659.8] And I literally would just, you know,
[1661.7] slowly write things down in my notebook.
[1664.2] Cause I'm like, I've never heard anyone say these things.
[1667.2] And I was like, there's a whole other language happening.
[1669.9] And I was blown away by it.
[1671.9] And I would write things down in my notebook.
[1673.7] So that's how the transferable skills guide was born
[1676.1] that I literally took, I consolidated a ton of jobs,
[1681.3] job postings that journalists could do.
[1684.2] And I, cause I started,
[1685.9] cause every Saturday I send out an email
[1687.5] called the rundown that has tons of jobs in it.
[1689.4] And so I go through it.
[1690.4] It's like I do it manually.
[1691.8] And so I kept on seeing similar lingo.
[1696.0] And I was like, and I kept it in my notes app of like,
[1699.2] and I literally, all of this stuff is manual
[1701.5] that's done, right?
[1702.5] Of just how can we describe ourselves?
[1704.9] So another issue that folks have,
[1707.1] because the number one question people had
[1708.7] was how can my skills transfer?
[1711.5] That's our number one question,
[1713.2] which is why the transferable skills guide was created.
[1716.1] Also, a lot of people start talking to me,
[1719.0] well, I wanna do this, you know,
[1720.8] or I don't wanna do PR,
[1722.6] because I don't wanna send press releases.
[1724.2] And I was like, the person who's sending press releases
[1726.4] in PR and the totem pole is probably very low
[1729.5] on the totem pole.
[1730.8] PR is very expansive.
[1733.2] You have to understand business,
[1734.5] you have to understand marketing,
[1735.9] you have to understand audiences.
[1737.5] There's so much more strategy and PR
[1740.3] than you're giving people credit for
[1741.8] because you're only dealing with PR
[1743.7] in a very small fraction of people's roles
[1747.0] or people who are in the more junior roles
[1750.3] and not people who are in the more senior roles.
[1752.9] So you get a lot of that.
[1755.8] And I'm like, you're saying what you think you want
[1759.8] and don't in terms of job titles,
[1762.2] but you don't actually know what it means.
[1764.7] And then also to see the expansiveness
[1767.1] of how your skills transfer more broadly in the world
[1773.0] in a way that's authentic and not salesy.
[1775.4] That's another issue that folks are like,
[1777.1] I don't wanna just sell something.
[1778.5] Like I wanted to have meaning.
[1781.1] And one of my really dear friends
[1783.2] who has been on this journey with me for years,
[1786.6] she goes, Andrea, you don't have to aspire to be Oprah.
[1791.6] You can aspire to be the person Oprah interviews.
[1794.7] And the whole idea is that they're important too.
[1797.7] They're doing really important work too.
[1800.0] So it doesn't have to just look one way.
[1803.4] That's amazing.
[1804.5] So if someone's starting down this journey,
[1807.0] what are the first things they're encountering
[1809.1] after learning that this goes are transferable
[1812.6] and then how are you learning how to relate those?
[1815.1] What are the next things they have to encounter
[1817.7] and deal with and manage to move to the next level?
[1821.0] Yeah, first you just have to get clarity.
[1823.3] Oftentimes people are just like,
[1825.6] I just need to update my resume.
[1827.1] And I like to go where?
[1829.0] You don't even know where you wanna go.
[1831.2] And also being multifaceted people,
[1833.5] we have a lot of skills.
[1834.6] You need to optimize for your top skills.
[1836.7] You don't have to, you know,
[1838.0] saying I could just do everything means nothing.
[1841.2] That means you can't do anything to other people.
[1844.2] So you have to be really clear about what worked,
[1847.5] what didn't work.
[1848.5] What environment can you thrive in?
[1851.8] Newsrooms are pretty standard environments, pretty standard.
[1855.8] But outside that, like you have wildly different work
[1860.6] environments.
[1861.2] You have to be very clear about how do you thrive?
[1864.1] How do you like to be managed?
[1865.6] Do you need flexibility?
[1867.3] Which I didn't fully realize until I took an assessment
[1871.8] and it put it into words for me.
[1873.4] And I'm like, I know why this job wasn't great for me.
[1875.8] And I know why this job was wonderful for me.
[1878.2] was just that dynamic.
[1879.3] So first is I have a whole framework.
[1881.8] It's called Empower.
[1882.8] So we can't go through all of it,
[1884.5] but the first one is in vision.
[1885.8] So it's really just getting clear.
[1887.6] There are a lot of roads.
[1889.1] You wanna recalibrate your GPS to what road
[1891.8] you wanna go down.
[1892.9] The M is money.
[1894.6] So we have to be very clear about,
[1897.2] we have to fund our dreams.
[1898.9] And so the reason why I was able to take a bigger risk
[1902.1] is because I had money saved, period.
[1904.8] And so, you know, like let's just not be airy fairy
[1907.7] about this were grown ups.
[1908.8] I live in New York City.
[1910.0] My rent is people's mortgages, right?
[1912.4] Like it's ridiculous.
[1913.7] And so you have to save money because money buys you time
[1917.8] and a LinkedIn report show that it's taking the average job
[1921.5] seeker at least at least six months to find a new job,
[1925.8] which means that if you don't have between your severance
[1928.8] or your savings at least six months saved,
[1932.3] then you need to pull multiple levers at the same time.
[1935.5] your money, your runway determines the urgency.
[1939.5] Right?
[1940.3] I tell people all the time, save your money.
[1942.2] Save your money.
[1943.2] Yes.
[1943.5] Start early, save your money.
[1944.7] Because you're going early.
[1947.5] Especially now, especially now where people are literally
[1950.3] coming to work and they're like, oh, by the way, not only,
[1953.7] like our whole outlet is shutting down.
[1957.5] I mean, that's just real life that's
[1959.5] happening for people.
[1960.8] And so you can say sometimes we become
[1964.5] like justice warriors and journalism,
[1966.6] but it shouldn't be like this.
[1968.6] And that it, okay, right, but it is.
[1971.9] Now what?
[1973.1] You know what I'm saying?
[1973.9] Like literally now what?
[1975.6] And so if you don't have enough runway
[1978.6] and you are looking,
[1979.7] that means that you have to monetize your expertise
[1982.2] right now while also looking for a full-time job,
[1986.5] they both have to happen simultaneously
[1989.3] or else you're gonna get into scarcity
[1991.6] and take whatever and you're gonna be miserable, right?
[1994.9] And so money buys time, full stop,
[1998.8] and have a clear budget on how much you spend,
[2002.4] not your oodles and noodles budget,
[2004.0] like you were 21 years old,
[2005.9] your real life grown up budget.
[2009.2] How much can you save?
[2011.2] Is there anything unnecessary that you can cut?
[2014.7] I believe in living a nice life, you know?
[2017.7] But having that, and also,
[2020.1] So if it's gonna take some time,
[2022.2] you gotta figure out how to monetize
[2023.5] your expertise right now.
[2024.9] And that doesn't mean necessarily like working retail
[2027.9] or Uber, those are fine if that's what you wanna do.
[2030.8] But you have skills that people need
[2032.6] and that's what we teach folks is how to monetize
[2034.9] their expertise in terms of like consulting
[2037.5] and freelancing and things like that
[2039.4] that's still like corporate work
[2041.3] that can give you thousands of dollars
[2043.5] and not a few hundred dollars at a time.
[2045.8] I think those are the first two.
[2047.3] I'll say the third one actually really quickly
[2049.4] because it's really important is your personal brand.
[2051.7] No one knows who you are if you don't tell them who you are.
[2055.2] And I think that working in a public space,
[2058.6] even if you're behind the scenes,
[2059.9] working in a big name,
[2062.2] kind of gives you a false sense of security.
[2064.7] No one can help you if they don't know who you are,
[2066.7] if they don't know what you can do,
[2068.0] and if they don't know what you need.
[2070.0] And if you're not sharing that,
[2071.4] if you're not saying that on a consistent basis
[2074.4] and one time's not enough,
[2076.1] if you're not sharing it,
[2077.4] then you can't become a magnet to opportunities.
[2080.0] You will always be the person chasing.
[2082.2] And I think people don't even realize what their brand is
[2085.0] or who they are because it's not always who you think it is
[2089.5] either.
[2091.1] That's true.
[2091.9] And in a lot of people, I see they're not on LinkedIn,
[2095.7] which is a huge mistake, big old eggs for their pictures.
[2099.8] And then they're like, oh, I should care now.
[2101.7] And let me just set something up.
[2103.4] And they haven't seen anything about themselves.
[2105.4] It's just like a lot of words.
[2106.7] It doesn't say anything.
[2107.6] Nobody knows what you're talking about.
[2110.3] And they're not getting in on, or if they are,
[2112.7] they're saying, I covered the Trump trial today.
[2117.1] And this is what happened.
[2118.1] And I was like, we know, and people aren't
[2120.7] going to LinkedIn to figure out the latest on the Trump trial.
[2123.1] But do you have a specific expertise
[2125.5] that you can share with us?
[2127.4] If you did a story and you had a specific character,
[2131.0] I see I did a one on one with somebody.
[2133.6] And they, I said, what do you want to be known for?
[2136.2] And they're like, man, I really would love to do something
[2138.0] that has a health and wellness to spend to it.
[2140.6] Because I really love that.
[2142.7] I was like, great.
[2143.6] Would anybody know that you care about health and wellness
[2145.8] if they looked on any or socially at the Google G.
[2149.6] No, because they're just going to see the last fire,
[2151.9] the last shooting, the last, and look,
[2154.4] you got to do whatever you got to do.
[2155.9] But how about instead of covering the actual shooting,
[2160.2] like sharing it, like, hey, I covered the shooting.
[2163.2] and five people are dead and two are in the hospital, right?
[2166.7] Like giving the summary, the synopsis of the story.
[2169.9] How about you frame it in a way of, you know,
[2173.7] covering crime as a part of my job,
[2176.8] but to decompress, these are my mental health practices
[2180.7] as a result.
[2182.5] Why don't you frame it?
[2183.5] Where you still do the story,
[2184.8] because you have to get paid, right?
[2186.1] But now you're framing it,
[2187.4] because you wanna be known for more of health and wellness
[2191.3] versus kind of what you do day to day.
[2193.8] So it is just really important.
[2195.7] So that's what you guys do with the kind of intake.
[2197.8] You interview people and you come up with a document
[2201.1] that summarizes their personalities,
[2202.8] their interests, their skills and their values.
[2204.7] Yeah.
[2205.5] So when I do do one-on-ones for folks,
[2208.8] especially now it's like really in the community.
[2212.1] And that's I use this framework.
[2213.8] And I'm asking them a ton of questions.
[2216.2] And then I relay it back to them.
[2219.4] everybody I've done it with.
[2220.8] They're like, oh, I can do it.
[2222.8] Because it just seems like a big, audacious thing.
[2225.2] And they're like, oh, I can figure out
[2228.6] what next step to take.
[2230.5] Because all you have to do really,
[2232.4] and I don't want to trivialize it,
[2234.2] because it is a lot of hard work.
[2235.8] But I always say on the podcast,
[2237.5] it's about how to get from where you are to where you want to be.
[2240.1] So we're here to help be that bridge.
[2242.8] And so it's just identifying where are you,
[2245.7] and identifying where you want to go,
[2247.5] and what's the path to bridge that gap?
[2250.7] So you might not make a leap.
[2252.1] Most of us don't, you know?
[2253.7] But what's the next best thing is why I called it that
[2256.7] because it's not, especially now I think people,
[2260.1] I had a friend who was talking about,
[2261.6] well, I don't know, you know, if I don't do this
[2264.1] and you know, I might do something else and you know,
[2266.8] I don't know if I could stay there for long
[2268.2] and I was like, no one should be thinking about staying
[2270.2] anywhere for long.
[2271.4] What can you do for one year?
[2272.5] What can you do for two years?
[2273.8] I wouldn't think about anything beyond two years
[2276.2] because it's just changing so fast.
[2278.5] What's your next best thing?
[2280.1] And then when you do that,
[2281.4] then what's your next best thing?
[2283.0] If your life changes, if you're partnered,
[2285.5] if you have children, your needs change.
[2287.9] And then you get your next best thing.
[2289.7] And so it's all about, you know,
[2291.2] living the life that fits your life
[2293.6] as opposed to working and then trying to like
[2295.8] fold yourself into a pretzel to try to make it fit.
[2299.9] That's really good advice.
[2300.7] That is really good advice to figure out
[2303.4] what your life, what you want your life to be like.
[2306.0] I think that's what I've been trying to do for the,
[2308.6] or have been doing for the last four years.
[2310.9] How is your life different now than it was
[2313.4] when you were at W.C.B.S.?
[2315.4] Oh, my God!
[2317.0] It's unrecognizable.
[2319.5] It's, I'm coming up on three years.
[2323.6] And it is, I was just thinking about this.
[2325.7] It is absolutely unrecognizable.
[2328.2] First of all, I work harder than I have ever worked ever.
[2333.2] But I have so much joy.
[2336.0] I have so much joy because I'm working on things
[2339.2] that are really meaningful to me.
[2341.7] I love learning.
[2343.1] I just love learning.
[2344.7] I'm a complete geek and I do that every single day.
[2348.5] The most nuanced, crazy thing.
[2351.7] So I've learned so much being able to,
[2355.2] and again, I don't think entrepreneurship is for everyone.
[2357.5] I don't think it's for most people.
[2359.0] But in pursuit of this, being able to make money
[2361.9] just from my idea.
[2363.9] Like literally I had an idea,
[2365.8] and then I just went and pounded the pavement
[2368.3] to make it happen.
[2369.6] Is the most empowering thing I have ever experienced.
[2373.3] So now my question last year was,
[2375.6] which was my first full year in entrepreneurship,
[2378.5] because I had a bridge job with the Grillo.
[2380.5] And last year my question was,
[2381.6] oh my God, can I do this?
[2382.9] Can I pay my bills just based on this work?
[2386.0] And I did it.
[2387.2] I replaced my income from news.
[2389.6] And now it's all right, what numbers do you want to hit?
[2392.5] So I literally come up with numbers.
[2394.5] And I'm like, all right, how can you figure this out?
[2397.4] And to have that agency, I'm not special.
[2401.3] I'm not special.
[2402.2] I have no special powers.
[2403.8] I'm not from a first generation American.
[2407.9] Like I'm not special.
[2409.9] You are special, but I just have the courage
[2415.4] and the confidence to believe in myself
[2418.5] and to believe that nothing is wasted.
[2422.3] So I think being a journalist made me so much better
[2425.2] as an entrepreneur, and I use my journalism skills
[2428.6] every single day.
[2429.9] So yeah, and the biggest thing is that I get to see my family,
[2433.2] which was the crux of all of this in terms of living
[2435.8] the life that you want, as I just came from home.
[2439.9] I literally am in Maryland probably one week out of the month now.
[2444.2] My parents are doing great and stuff like that,
[2446.1] but I don't miss moments anymore.
[2448.8] You know, I don't miss anything.
[2450.5] And you don't miss working on Christmas?
[2452.1] I know, I don't ruin Christmas.
[2453.8] I wouldn't ruin Christmas where they'd be like,
[2455.9] cause we go on vacation for Christmas
[2457.6] and they're like, Andrea, can we go on vacation this year?
[2459.8] And I'm like, I'm waiting to hear back
[2461.8] and I can't hear out.
[2463.3] Or make Christmas shorters though.
[2465.3] Yeah, no, so I don't miss.
[2467.4] I don't miss any family moments.
[2469.5] You agree, that from me too.
[2471.5] Okay, can we talk about one last thing before you talk
[2473.8] about cowboy cargo?
[2474.6] because I just listened to your podcast
[2476.0] to go in there.
[2476.8] Ever.
[2477.7] The best ever on the go there.
[2479.4] Oh my God, it was so great.
[2481.7] I was at the opening night in the light.
[2484.1] Okay.
[2484.9] And it was, and I literally decided to go like today.
[2487.2] I really wanted to go because I'm a huge fan of the album.
[2489.4] It's one of my favorite albums.
[2490.8] Yeah.
[2491.7] From beginning to end, I listened to it over and over
[2493.3] and over again.
[2494.2] Yes.
[2495.0] And I literally decided two days before I'm like, I'm going.
[2497.6] And randomly, I got a friend next to my friend.
[2501.2] So it was even more fun.
[2502.4] So it was an amazing move.
[2504.1] Tell us about your experience.
[2505.9] Oh, my gosh.
[2507.1] So it was, I had never seen Beyoncé in concert.
[2510.0] I had never seen Beyoncé.
[2511.7] I was just like, I'm not part of the behind.
[2513.8] Like, I thought folks were extra.
[2516.0] You know, like, oh, you've got it.
[2517.9] And I tried to like, my friend got tickets.
[2520.6] And I was like, oh, I held the screens open
[2522.9] to try to get the tickets and the fight to,
[2525.1] like all of that.
[2526.1] I was like, oh, this is so much.
[2528.3] But she just vibrates on such a different thing.
[2534.1] frequency and her excellence and just the fact that she lives on her own terms.
[2540.2] I am I've always been fascinated by it.
[2543.1] So I was in almost the time where I'm seeing a lot but sometimes I just stop and I'm like,
[2548.8] this is cool.
[2549.9] What I am seeing is crazy.
[2551.9] I love what you said too.
[2553.8] Like I can imagine her dreams.
[2555.5] What are your dreams like?
[2557.1] What are her dreams like?
[2558.5] How are you like how do you think this up?
[2561.8] Because every corner, there's something always happening.
[2565.9] Every dancer is intentional.
[2568.5] They're dancing on a hundred.
[2570.5] No one is slacking.
[2572.3] The all the things are happening.
[2574.4] The videos running at the right time.
[2576.4] It's like all of the things, the colors, they all in an all mean something.
[2582.0] It all means something.
[2583.6] And so it's really indicative of how I want to live my life in terms of being very clear
[2590.4] about what my offering is, not being swayed by what an industry standard is, and saying,
[2596.8] no, this is how I show up. This is what I have to offer. And also being locked in with your tribe
[2604.8] and your audience, and being inclusive enough in a time when everybody is like in scarcity,
[2610.9] to say, no, no, no, no, there's so much to go around, right? There's, there's place for everybody.
[2617.7] that was also the most beautiful thing of just seeing everybody from everywhere showing up and their
[2624.9] whole demonstration of themselves. Like it was from because it took the train like from the train station.
[2632.2] It just was it just was wild to me. It was amazing. The way everyone it made an event. Everyone
[2638.9] was dressed, you know, boots and their hats and everyone looked different and you know, the American
[2644.8] flag was everywhere. I thought there was really, really profound. And to me, the album
[2650.7] is such an exploration of not just country music in general, but country music in very broad
[2657.0] spectrums. There's a lot of Western stuff. There's a lot of taxes, rodeo. It was, I love
[2663.7] the album so much. I really do. I listen to it over and over again because it's, there's
[2667.6] every time I feel like I get something new out of it too.
[2670.9] And you know when I went to Nashville, that's when I was first like fully introducing into country music before I be like,
[2676.7] now I don't listen to that. And then there were just like parts of it when I was in Nashville. I'm like, oh,
[2681.6] this is like I love the soul of it. And I love, you know, just I just was exposed to it in like different ways.
[2688.2] And so she melded all of the things that I loved. And then also all of the things that I felt like was,
[2697.0] was distant, you know, all into one. I was like, this is genius. I actually thought I might
[2702.8] go to Vegas. Yeah, that's where I'm like, talking to my friend. It's so financially irresponsible
[2707.8] for me. I'm just trying to bridge that. Yeah, to go to Vegas. I really should not, but I'm literally
[2713.0] like, I know if you go, maybe we have a dream. Yeah, no, that would be so great.
[2719.9] All right, Andre, I appreciate the time today and the wisdom that you're passing on. I'm so
[2725.4] interested to know more about and how you're you're literally helping people make that transition and it's
[2731.2] remarkable work that you're doing. I'm
[2733.6] thank you. Congratulations. Thank you. And if I could just say one last thing is that sometimes people
[2739.6] feel away because they're like, oh, she's telling me to leave my job. No, that's not what I'm saying
[2746.6] at all. I'm just saying that you came into this because you loved it and you deserve to continue
[2752.4] you to have a career from that same passion of service.
[2755.9] And one person shouldn't hold the keys to your future.
[2759.6] And so that's when I'm just helping people create more options
[2762.3] in their life.
[2762.9] And so if you're interested, you can go to start your rewrite.com
[2766.4] and to find out more information.
[2768.3] That's what I say too.
[2769.2] It is we're not anti journalism.
[2771.5] We're here for it.
[2772.2] We support and value it.
[2775.3] It's more important than ever.
[2777.1] But sometimes you got to move on.
[2779.2] And when you're ready, we're here.
[2780.7] Yes, exactly.
[2781.8] Exactly. Thank you so much for having me.
[2783.8] It was so nice talking about cowboy card here with someone, another fan. I've been looking for an
[2788.1] opportunity. I'm glad Andrei gave it to me. If you want to know more about the rewrite, it's
[2791.5] the website is called startyourrewrite.com. You can sign up for Andrei as newsletter and download
[2796.4] the transferable skills guide. They're both free. You got to check it out. The link will be in
[2800.5] the bio. Also, if you want to hear her podcast, it's called the next best thing. The YouTube link
[2805.7] will be on there or you can find it wherever you find podcasts. The link will be in the show notes.
[2810.1] Coming up in the next episode of Life After News, Los Angeles reporter anchor Christina Pascochi
[2816.7] left the news about a year and a half ago and since then she's run for the US Senate,
[2821.1] she had a baby, she went to Yemen, she joined the California State Guard and now she's
[2826.3] expecting her second child. So you hear all about her amazing story and what she's doing and what
[2829.6] she's passionate about now. If you haven't already, please subscribe wherever you listen to podcast,
[2833.9] latest reviews. Also subscribe to our YouTube page for the video versions of this. You can follow me on
[2842.0] Instagram at Mr. Jason Ball or at life after news pod. Linked in to another place to catch up with me.
[2847.6] I love to have conversations about careers and career pivots and journalism. We have new episodes
[2851.9] every Tuesday. If you like it, share it, give us good reviews. Thank you so much.