[3.6] Welcome back to the second access podcast. I am your host business coach speaker and author Shannon Russell
[11.6] My guest on this episode of the show is Marianne de mellow Smith
[16.2] She is the creator and podcast host of message in the middle. This podcast is all about the messy middle
[23.3] We all know it. We've all been there or we are going through it now and that messy middle is unpredictable
[29.4] It's challenging and Marianne went through it herself.
[32.9] She separated from a company she had been with for over 25 years because of burnout.
[38.9] She was able to reclaim life by deciding what is important to her.
[43.4] She started creating healthy habits, finding that balance, and she ended up finding another job that was on her own terms.
[51.0] Marianne has so much advice, so much to share, so let's get started.
[56.3] This is my conversation with Marianne from the message in the middle podcast.
[61.3] Marianne de mellow Smith, welcome to second ex success. I'm so honored to have you here with me.
[67.1] Thank you. It's been a long time and coming. So I'm glad to be here with you today.
[71.4] I was, I guess, on your amazing podcast and you just shared that a friend of yours reached out and
[77.8] said he heard our conversation and decided to start his next act and that also
[84.8] So inspiring and it's a testament to your show and all the goodness that you're putting
[90.6] out.
[91.6] We're going to dive into all of that.
[92.6] But let's start like I do all of my episodes here and bring it back to the beginning.
[97.1] Where did your career first start?
[99.9] I would say my real career started.
[104.7] Now it's been about 35 years.
[107.6] I was coming out of college.
[109.1] I had a journalism in English major.
[113.6] I was writing for a local travel publication. I needed a full-time job. I was a single mom coming
[121.2] out of college and I needed the benefits and the full-time something I could count on that really
[127.7] would make the difference. I landed a job as a client service representative in a big financial
[137.1] services organization and really just started working my way up about every two years.
[144.8] I sort of found another place to go within the company and elevated myself and within
[151.2] my career.
[152.2] And I ended up staying with that company for 26 years, client services rep, business
[159.4] I ran a team of research folks, eventually landed for probably the second half of that span as a director and a vice president over a team of business analysts, project managers, local developer, systems configuration team.
[182.4] It really spanned a lot of areas, but in all those jobs I sat between
[188.1] the business and the technology and I think that's important because I've always been a
[193.9] connector of sorts people information
[198.2] Technology that kind of thing so I think that lends itself to where I am today
[202.4] But so different than English and journalism in a sense were you able to incorporate any of it in there?
[208.2] Was there a lot of writing or creativity?
[210.8] Not really.
[211.8] And you know, I think as you probably can relate
[215.0] and hopefully your listeners can relate.
[217.5] I think you don't realize you miss it.
[219.6] You get caught up in, well, life thing.
[222.8] And you get caught up in all the things, right?
[225.4] I started building this career.
[227.8] And I really did love my job.
[230.1] There were so many years out of that
[232.3] that I loved my job.
[234.1] I loved the people I worked with.
[236.1] I loved the stuff we were doing for clients.
[240.0] So I don't feel like I missed it.
[241.5] And I also felt like I was being rewarded.
[244.2] I kept getting promotions.
[245.7] And I was on the hamster wheel of chasing all of that too.
[249.3] That external validation of what can I get next?
[253.3] And I don't think I really missed it or knew I missed it
[259.1] until I really took a step back.
[262.1] And then I started reconnecting in.
[263.7] And I really realized it at that point.
[265.7] But, you know, there were memos and there were client communication.
[269.3] So there was a little bit in there,
[271.6] but it wasn't a steadier big piece of what I did.
[275.9] No, and I think what you do now as a podcaster
[278.9] is bringing that creative side.
[280.9] And like you said, the connector.
[282.6] But also as someone who was in kind of that media world
[287.6] for the first half of my career, it's not a stable.
[290.8] And you took the responsible step in finding this really
[294.5] stable job for you and your family.
[297.7] And that's what you needed to do.
[299.6] And then luckily you were good at it.
[302.0] You didn't really see so great.
[303.7] And you've got this.
[304.7] And you end up at the top.
[306.5] And 26 years is incredible to be at one place.
[311.7] It was a really good run while it lasted.
[313.9] Yeah.
[315.4] Well, let's talk about that then.
[317.1] And where that transition and why it didn't become 27 years.
[321.3] You know, what was your reasoning?
[322.7] what was it that catalyst to get you out of there?
[326.7] It really was a series of events.
[329.1] So within like a six year span,
[331.9] the company went through multiple acquisition.
[335.6] The first one wasn't so bad.
[337.9] It was, you know, we were acquired by an organization
[342.0] we were affiliated with and it felt pretty natural,
[344.9] still changes like any acquisition
[347.8] and still fall out like any acquisition,
[350.4] you know, some reorgs and people leaving
[352.1] and shuffling around and all that kind of stuff.
[354.3] But for the most part, still felt okay.
[357.8] The subsequent acquisitions,
[359.4] which came shortly after, not so much,
[362.5] they just became a place where I wasn't having fun anymore.
[367.2] I didn't feel aligned with the goals
[371.2] and the direction of the company anymore.
[374.7] And I hung in there probably longer than I should have
[378.7] because I had a team.
[380.3] I had grown up with some of these people
[382.7] and we built this thing and it sort of felt
[386.8] like I was letting them down.
[388.4] I was giving up on all of the things
[391.2] that I built over those years.
[393.0] Also had a lack of confidence
[394.9] that I could take my skills and port them somewhere else,
[399.4] which I now look back on and it's silly to me
[402.1] because it's clearly evident that you could take them
[405.6] to so many places, but in the moment,
[408.5] in the time embedded in it.
[410.8] I didn't feel that.
[412.2] But eventually things got to a place
[414.9] where I really wasn't happy.
[416.7] It was really wearing on me personally.
[418.9] And I put my hand up and I said,
[422.2] I really need to get out of here to my management team.
[424.9] And it didn't happen then.
[426.9] It was about six months later or so.
[429.1] And I ended up separating from the company.
[432.5] And that's it.
[434.1] That's sort of what transitioned in.
[436.4] I'd say the better part of that story is I took six months off,
[441.3] quiet time, that moment to sort of look back and debrief
[446.1] and unwind from all those years,
[449.3] because I hadn't taken, I had another child,
[452.3] so I had a little window of time in all those years off,
[455.9] but for the most part, was steady working for 26 years.
[458.7] So that pause, that six months, that was when I really
[464.2] did a lot of reflection and really made some big decisions to realign things.
[469.7] Would you say you were at burnout or would you say it was more of just the new way of working?
[476.9] And I've been through an acquisition with the franchise that I owned and it was very
[480.6] uncomfortable and was a main reason in me wanting to sell my business and leave as well.
[486.3] So I know that that uncomfortableness that you were probably going through.
[491.3] So I'm curious how you came to that final decision to leap into just the unknown, right?
[497.3] Because you didn't have something to go into.
[499.1] Yeah.
[500.1] So first off, to be completely fair and transparent, the final plug was me getting laid off
[509.9] after having put my hand up.
[511.3] So I did have the conversation.
[513.1] There was again, like six more months.
[515.5] That's how it went down, which was fine.
[518.0] As I had said, I needed to get out of there.
[520.4] Yes.
[521.2] answer your question though. I do think I was burned out. I think the change in operating
[529.3] model and all of the things that went with that in the fact that I wasn't in alignment
[535.9] anymore with the company's goals and directions was really detrimental to me personally.
[542.6] I was miserable. Literally after I left and after during that six month period, my husband
[549.6] said to me, wow, you're back. And I didn't know we hadn't had a conversation about that, but I was
[554.5] just so miserable that obviously I was passing it on at home. I just felt depleted all the time
[562.4] and discouraged and wasn't making a difference anymore and decisions just in align with decisions
[570.2] that were being made. So all the things that just instead of filling you up that take away from you,
[576.0] I would say it's a little bit of both, but I definitely think I was burnt out. It was it was time.
[581.4] And I give you props for recognizing that because a lot of times women will just work
[585.7] right through that and okay, I'm going to put my head down. But you recognize that in yourself and
[591.3] put your hand up. I think that's very big to say whatever comes next is going to be better than
[597.1] where I am now. Let's be fair. And again, I'm fully, I'm just a transparent person. I don't know
[602.6] that I felt that, right? Like I made, I took the leap, but I was nervous. As I said, I didn't,
[608.0] you would think that you were very confident. And if you would have seen me at work, you would
[611.5] think, oh, she's a confident person. Not so much. I was confident in what I did there. I knew it.
[618.5] And I knew what I did. And I did well. And I knew that and felt very confident in it. What I
[624.2] didn't feel confident is how I take those skills and take them somewhere else and do something else.
[629.6] And I wasn't at a position where I or at a point in life where I would could not be working anymore. I knew I still needed to work.
[637.6] So that was scary. And I think it's okay and I know you recognize that too.
[644.6] Like I think people need to hear that. You can't wait till the moment feels like, oh, this is comfortable and this is good and I've got it all worked out.
[655.6] Great if that happens for you, but for most people, I don't think that's the reality.
[662.3] No, I agree with you.
[664.5] But you can learn a lot about yourself in that transition.
[667.6] Like you said, those six months, you reflected.
[671.2] And not everyone does that.
[672.8] Sometimes you get that space and you're just rushing for that next thing and you're
[676.9] going and you're going.
[678.1] So what made you say, I'm going to stop and I'm going to talk to myself and figure
[683.9] out.
[684.9] And you know what I need for this next act.
[688.5] I am a very self aware person.
[690.3] I always have been.
[691.4] I'm also a personal development junkie.
[693.7] I always have been in a lifelong learner.
[696.5] So for me, all those things added up to me knowing.
[701.5] I just need to take a minute.
[703.3] Like this, I just left an unhealthy situation for me.
[708.4] Not saying it was for everybody.
[709.8] For me, it was not the right choice anymore.
[712.1] And I was not healthy in it.
[714.6] And I knew I needed some time to sort of rebuild my confidence and figure it out, like figure out what's next.
[724.1] I literally told the people that I worked with and friends like, I don't want to talk about work career.
[730.1] I'll let you know when I'm ready. I don't want to have these conversations. And I didn't. I did not have the conversations until about five months after I had left.
[739.4] I really shut it all out, shut it all down and just started to get quiet and listen again,
[746.1] listen to all the things I had ignored for so many years.
[749.7] Well, it makes me wonder what that message was.
[753.1] Your podcast, which we'll talk about, is called Message in the Middle.
[756.6] What was the message that you maybe heard from yourself in that middle section when you
[761.8] were trying to figure out your next move?
[765.1] I'd say it's a few things, but I'd say I had to get back to who I really was because I got lost along the way.
[775.1] That was probably number one.
[777.1] And I needed to take a minute to re-prioritize my life and remember what my real goals and values were because for a long time, I think I had the wrong goals and values prioritized.
[794.1] work was probably number one and chasing those validations and the
[800.3] continuing to to grow in that role that was important at the detriment of
[805.7] some things at home. So I just really needed to I'd say the messaging was
[810.9] remember who you are start unlearning some of the things that you've learned
[816.7] over the last or reinforced over the last 25 years and then reprioritize and
[823.5] and sort of get your goals and check and your values and check
[826.7] and make sure they're real clear.
[833.7] My new book, Start Your Second Act,
[836.1] How to Change Careers, Launch a Business,
[838.2] and Create Your Best Life is available now.
[841.4] Head over to startyoursecondact.com
[844.6] or go to Amazon, Barnes and Noble,
[846.8] or any local bookstore to pick up your copy.
[849.8] If you are thinking about starting over in your career
[853.1] or maybe you just need some inspiration
[855.1] about what a second act can look like,
[857.6] This book is your resource on how to take action.
[861.3] Grab your copy of Start Your Second Act at startyoursecondact.com.
[866.0] That's such an important part and I think for any listeners to take that time and really
[875.1] think about your priorities, especially when you're making that change because again, you
[879.5] don't want to end up in the same place.
[882.0] All over again.
[884.0] Yeah.
[885.0] Yeah.
[886.0] It's super important to take.
[888.1] If you are afforded the opportunity to know, let's be honest, there's some people that don't
[892.3] have a minute and they have to go right out and grab whatever they can get and they jump
[896.5] in just to buy time and bring home a paycheck and kudos to them because you got to do
[901.3] what you got to do.
[902.7] But if you are afforded the opportunity in your life to take that moment, whatever that
[907.9] moment looks like, take some time to really go within and be intentional.
[914.6] For me, at that point in my life, I'm 51.
[920.1] What do I want to do with the rest of my life?
[922.3] Between now and dead, do I want it to look like it did for the last 25 years or do I want
[926.9] something completely different?
[928.6] That's the kind of conversation I think is important for people to have.
[933.1] Absolutely.
[934.1] What was your next step after those six months?
[936.6] You get back on LinkedIn, you're talking to people again.
[939.7] What did you decide was best for you?
[943.2] I'll probably make people really angry because it was pretty dare I say easy for me.
[949.1] But I definitely had some connections that were right there and ready and waiting for me
[955.9] to say that I was, you know, available and back in the ring and I had a couple of people
[962.9] get me in touch with the right people and get some interviews and set me up with somewhere
[968.1] else that I went into my new company where I'm at now and have been since still back in
[974.9] corporate America. I'm a chief of staff in a large infrastructure organization. And I still
[982.9] have a role that brings value every day. And I'm doing it though with guardrails and went in with
[993.5] the right conversations to say, I'm not looking for a team the size I had before.
[1000.7] I'm not looking for a 24 seven job.
[1004.3] I want to add value every single day and I want to be an important member of the team.
[1010.6] And I want to be used however I best can be utilized.
[1013.2] But here are the conditions that I'm looking for.
[1016.8] And I was so blessed to be able to find somewhere in a organization.
[1022.9] and management team, executive team that I can work with and for that supports that.
[1029.2] So again, I know not everybody is afforded with those opportunities, but I think the point is,
[1035.1] be clear on what you want and what you need, have transparent conversations, and just make sure you
[1043.3] going in knowing, set those boundaries for yourself and recalibrate what things should look like for
[1049.6] yourself and try to stay true to that.
[1051.6] I'm clapping for you because I see.
[1054.6] In both realm, the fact that you had people ready to offer you an opportunity is an
[1061.6] testament to who you are and the connections you've made over the years.
[1065.6] So that's wonderful because your network was there to support you.
[1069.6] Yeah.
[1070.6] And also to go in and have those conversations and say, I am worthy of stating my non-negotiable.
[1077.6] I'm going to state that this is what I want.
[1079.8] And you probably have seen this and know this as well,
[1082.1] of course, Mary Ann.
[1083.0] But as women, we're always taught to go in and just be a yes,
[1087.8] ma'am and go in and just, okay, sure.
[1091.0] I'm so grateful to be in the room
[1092.5] instead of I deserve to be here.
[1094.2] Yeah.
[1095.2] And I can think of certain situations
[1097.4] after becoming a mom where I was still working in television.
[1101.5] And I went in there saying, oh, you want me for this job.
[1105.1] And I can tell you this one very large network.
[1108.3] I was on probably my third interview.
[1110.4] It seemed like a shoe-in.
[1111.9] Well, I said I need to leave at X time
[1115.5] so that I can get home for my kids
[1117.3] and can I tell you the communication afterwards changed.
[1121.1] And it was so blatantly apparent that I'm like,
[1123.9] I bet you I have a lawsuit here or something.
[1125.7] I was so appalled by the way I was treated by just stating
[1130.5] that I needed to leave 45 minutes early.
[1133.7] It made me say, okay, well, this just clearly isn't going to work anymore in this industry.
[1139.1] But I like that you were able to say that and find an industry that would meet you and
[1144.1] value you where you were.
[1146.5] Yeah, I think I'm right.
[1147.7] And again, I say all of these things with knowing that not everybody is in the
[1151.9] position to be able to do some of this because again, yeah, no, no,
[1156.0] that you valid valid.
[1158.0] I think that the important part though is knowing, right?
[1160.8] knowing where you stand and make an intentional decision.
[1164.4] You know, maybe those people would have said to you,
[1166.3] well, you can leave three days a week at that time
[1169.3] or whatever.
[1170.2] At least intentionally, you would have known,
[1173.3] this is a decision I now have to make.
[1175.2] I think that sometimes we don't have clear boundaries
[1179.1] or clear conditions to your point.
[1181.5] We're just like, I need a job to sign me up
[1183.9] and we go take it or we're thankful for being in the room.
[1188.1] And I think it's important that we learn to remember the value that we bring.
[1193.2] And it's sometimes we lose track of that, but they're lucky to have us.
[1197.4] Yes.
[1198.3] And look where you are because you stood your ground.
[1200.7] You gave yourself that space.
[1202.9] You're in a good place.
[1203.9] Who knows what you would have said a few weeks out of leaving that first career.
[1210.4] And to have this opportunity, you might not have said your piece.
[1214.2] You wouldn't have known what to fight for.
[1217.2] You know, yeah, I agree with that. I think that's true.
[1221.5] I'm so happy you're in a place that just lights you up. I can see it. You're very fulfilled here.
[1227.7] And it's I don't want to say you're in control of the situation, but you almost manifested
[1233.8] this way of working that fits your life. I'd like to think of it that way. Yeah. And I do think that
[1240.8] I'm confident enough now to know if it got to a point where it wasn't working for me anymore.
[1247.8] That's okay. I would hate to leave. It's a good company and I have like I said I really like it. I enjoy my job.
[1254.8] But if it got to that point, it's not like it was before. I wouldn't feel like can I do this?
[1262.8] Will there be somewhere else? How am I gonna, it'll be fine. It'll all work out in the end. I feel confident in that.
[1269.8] And I think that makes a difference as well.
[1271.7] Oh yeah.
[1272.9] So much so that, that talked to us about your podcast.
[1275.9] And when on this second act journey,
[1278.9] you began that because I think
[1280.6] and why you began it and the message behind it.
[1283.1] It's so powerful.
[1284.6] Why I began it was, I would say, in that six month period,
[1289.6] I was going through a lot of transformation, right?
[1291.8] It wasn't just my job.
[1293.0] I had lost a whole bunch of weight.
[1294.8] I was helping in a wellness community.
[1297.3] I was doing some, I'll say sort of junior coaching
[1300.3] and running some book clubs and stuff.
[1302.6] And I was also remembering and leaning into,
[1307.0] what did I actually like to do?
[1308.6] Because I didn't have time to do any of that
[1310.6] for the last 25 or 26 years.
[1312.9] And so suddenly I had time.
[1315.1] So I was leaning into things that I loved
[1318.0] and back to your question about my English internalism
[1321.5] and writing and I remembered that was such a big part of me
[1326.5] And when I look back now, I remember that as long as I can remember, I used to love to listen to talk radio and there were
[1334.2] fourth grade newspapers and you know, it was it was always there.
[1338.3] As I started to to run these book clubs for in that that wellness community, I started to really take a big role doing that.
[1345.3] And I was I realized that hey, this is something you're connecting with these people.
[1350.7] I was holding zooms.
[1351.8] We would review on the content all that I should be doing this for myself.
[1356.1] this is something I should be doing. And so the idea started percolating and I started noodling on it
[1362.9] for a little bit and then in April of 2022, I just decided to bite the bullet and for a few months,
[1371.5] I'd probably say six months, I was trying to figure out how I got myself to this
[1377.7] good enough or perfect place where I knew what I was doing to start. And then finally, I was just
[1382.1] like this is it. This is good enough. Like I can start and I'll figure out the rest as I go.
[1388.0] And I think the reason I really wanted to do it was A, it's a creative outlet that gets me back to
[1394.1] all those things that I love. B, it allows me to bring the people information, research,
[1404.2] connectivity that I like to do, the bridge building that I like to do. It's sort of naturally
[1409.5] lends itself to doing all those things. But I think more importantly, life is messy and this is sort
[1416.5] of nice looking that life is messy and it's complicated and it's beautiful all at the same time.
[1422.9] And I think we're more alike than we are different and we all go through all these things that
[1428.5] sure they have different tweaks and nuances but they're kind of the same. And the more we can share
[1436.2] our stories, tell each other how we got through them. I feel like it helps people validate
[1443.0] that they're not crazy. Not crazy. This is how they're feeling. But you can also help
[1447.7] somebody. You can give people the cliff note version or the cheat sheet as to, you know,
[1452.8] you might want to try some of these things because they worked for me. And I just felt
[1457.6] like trying to bring that to people and bring people together around those kind of things.
[1464.2] felt like the right thing to do to me. So that's what I've been doing since.
[1468.6] Your podcast is message in the middle. And I think it's so
[1472.3] I propose to what you went through during those six months. That's your middle of your career.
[1476.9] If you think about it between your first role and your second one. And now you're helping people
[1484.5] by sharing stories of that messy middle and how to balance it all and how to figure out what's
[1490.4] best for them and you're giving so much to your listeners and what you're doing. And I think
[1496.6] you're giving it to yourself too. I would 100% agree with that. I agree with that. I do feel like
[1502.7] I get a lot out of it. And as we were talking about earlier, you know, it just takes one person. And
[1509.7] my goal going in it from day one is if I can impact one person, whether that's make them think
[1519.1] think about something differently, give them an idea, you know, sort of give them a push
[1524.6] or give them information that they can use just one person with each episode. Then I feel
[1529.5] like I'm doing my job because it only takes those little things to have a trickle down
[1536.4] impact. You impact one person and then they make a change and they impact people and those
[1542.5] people impact people. And I just feel like that's all that needs to happen. So I feel
[1548.1] validated every time I get a little message from somebody that says this made a difference to me.
[1553.9] And that's why I keep doing it. You enjoy it. It's easy. Like you said earlier, you enjoyed
[1559.5] talk radio. This is talk radio for a lot of people. Now it is. Yeah. What would your advice be to
[1564.3] someone who is in midlife, who's around our age and is saying, you know what, maybe I can't leave
[1570.8] my job. Maybe I can't start a business or do something different, but I could start a podcast.
[1576.2] You know, what would your advice be about picking up a mic and just starting?
[1581.6] Just that.
[1582.6] Just do it.
[1583.6] There's so much now that you can find on YouTube or there's so many free resources which
[1591.5] when we were growing up, that wasn't a thing.
[1593.6] You'd go grab the encyclopedia's, but now you can find anything you want.
[1598.8] Whatever set of tools you want to use, whatever, it's out there.
[1602.4] So do a little bit of research and just start.
[1606.4] Don't wait to be perfect.
[1607.7] You will not be perfect.
[1609.1] Don't wait till you have all the things figured out.
[1612.4] You won't ever get all the things figured out.
[1615.8] Pick a topic that interests you that you would love to learn more about that you want
[1621.5] to talk about and just get going.
[1624.0] And I would say there's also so many communities out there.
[1627.4] I will say that I think one of the most welcoming communities I've found is other
[1635.8] podcasters.
[1636.8] People help you.
[1638.1] There's so many forums and groups and meetups and all the things and you can get help from
[1643.3] people that have been doing this forever and they will take you under their wing and help
[1648.1] you figure out the pieces you don't know.
[1650.8] Just do it.
[1651.8] Don't worry about the perfect equipment or the perfect, what applications, what software,
[1657.2] pick something and start because there's a thousand of everything.
[1661.1] So just pick something and go in on it.
[1663.5] That's what I would say.
[1664.3] Just do it.
[1665.8] I agree.
[1666.3] And you don't have to necessarily
[1667.8] interview like we're doing right now.
[1669.5] Even in my podcast over the last year or so,
[1671.6] I've started doing more solo episodes
[1673.7] where I just start talking on whatever topic
[1676.1] and I talk for 10 minutes.
[1677.4] It's not a lot.
[1678.4] So you can do what feels comfortable to you at the time.
[1681.7] And of all, if we listen back to our first episodes, Marianne,
[1685.1] like I'm sure we'd be like,
[1686.1] whoa, what we're doing. But we evolve and we just keep going and it's something that brings us joy.
[1691.2] And hopefully as you said, impacts others as well. And it's a win-win.
[1695.8] Yeah, I would just add one thing. I would say, and even if you don't feel comfortable.
[1701.3] Because you said, you know, do what you're comfortable with. And I would say, for a lot of us,
[1705.5] we don't feel comfortable doing it at first. Your voice will sound cringy when you first listen
[1711.7] into your voice and, you know,
[1714.2] if you're using video, you will hate looking at yourself
[1717.0] with most people.
[1718.4] Yes.
[1719.5] But just do it anyway.
[1721.7] Just do it anyway.
[1722.9] And once you start taking those first steps,
[1724.9] you get more confident in it.
[1727.0] That's what I would say.
[1728.1] And it's a nice way to challenge yourself.
[1729.7] And I think, you know, in talking about second acts,
[1732.9] a lot of it is taking a challenge.
[1734.7] And I love, and I want to ask you about this too,
[1736.4] is on the podcast I'll talk about,
[1738.2] oh, leaving your job, starting a business,
[1740.4] or writing a book or changing careers.
[1744.0] You decided to pretty much stay in the same industry
[1748.3] or same field, but you evolved over your position
[1751.8] and then now being at a different company.
[1754.7] So you had a different type of second act.
[1757.8] And what would you advise someone who is thinking about that,
[1760.8] who doesn't want to go into entrepreneurship,
[1762.9] doesn't want to do something completely different,
[1765.7] they just want to be in a place
[1767.3] that feels better to them at this point in their lives.
[1771.2] I would say nothing is forever,
[1772.9] so I would say if that's your goal,
[1775.1] then search that out.
[1776.9] Start doing some research on places
[1779.2] that align with the kind of values
[1781.1] and the kind of culture that you're looking for.
[1784.3] And there's so many tools out there,
[1786.9] I didn't know about these either,
[1788.1] but there's so many tools out there now
[1789.6] that help you even map your skills
[1792.2] and your current role in case you want to change industries.
[1796.0] maybe you will need to change industries to get a better set of hours or
[1800.8] responsibilities or whatever it is.
[1803.4] I think that it's so hard sometimes we get so blindsided in what we're doing
[1808.4] today and exactly what that looks like that we forget.
[1811.5] Maybe you're an event planner for your company and you forget that you could do that
[1818.5] in any industry or you were a stay at home mom, but you were also the Girl Scout
[1823.9] leader.
[1824.4] Those skills will, you can take them and do so many things with them.
[1828.9] But so I would say do the research, try to find a company that has the culture you're
[1834.2] looking for, talk to people, hit people up on LinkedIn and ask them what it's really like.
[1839.0] They are not just the spin you're going to get in the marketing materials or even in an interview,
[1844.2] ask real people that are at that job and try to get a feel for what the companies like and try it.
[1850.1] And then I guess the other thing I would say, which may or may not be the right thing to say,
[1855.4] but, you know, I use this analogy.
[1858.7] I feel like I was married to my first job.
[1861.1] And I feel like maybe you just want to be dating when you make that big move.
[1866.0] And that you try it on.
[1868.4] And if it's right, maybe you stay in a long term relationship with it, right?
[1873.9] Yeah.
[1874.5] But if it's not right, then you look for something else where you separate and be by yourself
[1881.0] for a while, but to use that analogy further.
[1883.7] But nothing has to be forever.
[1885.8] So I say try something different if you're really that unhappy.
[1889.7] Try something different.
[1890.7] Oh, that's such great advice and really utilizing your network.
[1894.7] And if your data plays now, always make sure that you're keeping in contact with those
[1899.9] people and that you're active on LinkedIn letting people know what you're doing.
[1903.4] I want to remind people and it's funny, it's happened to me several times where sometimes
[1908.4] you post and you think no one's watching or no one's paying attention, then you get a message
[1913.4] from me.
[1914.4] I've been really watching you for the last 15 years and it's so great to reconnect and
[1918.4] you're like, what?
[1919.4] So make those connections because they can come in handy down the road.
[1923.7] So just always realize the value that you bring.
[1926.7] Don't just help yourself.
[1928.1] I agree with that and I also think that not everybody's great at this sort of old school
[1932.3] connections or going to like meetups and the small talk stuff. But don't forget all the connections
[1938.8] that you've made just working with people. I don't care what job you're in. You have relationships
[1943.1] with other people. Even if you're a cashier at a grocery store, you've made relationships with the
[1948.7] same customers that come in over and over and over. Don't be afraid to let those people know when
[1954.8] you're looking for something else or that you're just starting to think about something else.
[1960.3] to plant some seeds and something could come from that.
[1964.4] You've got nothing to lose really in trying to do that.
[1967.2] But I think you can connect in lots of different ways.
[1970.4] It doesn't have to look like those,
[1972.2] so to old school.
[1973.2] I know they're still off the network event kind of things,
[1976.0] but if you're not comfortable in that space,
[1977.7] cause some of us are more introverted
[1979.9] and we're not comfortable in that space,
[1981.9] that's okay.
[1982.8] You can still build your network
[1984.0] without doing that kind of stuff.
[1985.9] Very true.
[1986.9] That's a great point.
[1988.4] We're all speaking of networking, connecting.
[1990.5] How can everyone follow along with you,
[1993.1] listen to your podcast and stay in touch with you, Marianne?
[1996.4] So all things message in the middle.
[1998.4] So message in the middle.com is the website.
[2000.8] It's also message in the middle on all the major platforms,
[2004.3] Spotify, Apple, YouTube, all the things.
[2006.8] That's where you can find it.
[2008.3] I'll link to everything in the show notes.
[2010.0] And we could just talk all day.
[2012.1] And I just want to thank you so much for being here
[2014.9] and sharing your incredible journey.
[2016.7] And I know this conversation is going to inspire listeners
[2020.8] to really make that step in whatever direction they want
[2024.3] and to just do it anyway.
[2026.3] Do it, messing.
[2027.1] Yes, just do it.
[2028.5] Do it, messy, do it anyway.
[2030.2] Yes.
[2031.0] Thank you so much for having me on.
[2032.7] Thank you.
[2034.2] Thank you for joining me for another episode
[2036.3] of the second access podcast.
[2038.5] If this episode has you thinking about starting a business
[2041.6] or growing the one that you already have,
[2043.7] I offer free second act strategy calls.
[2047.1] This is where we map out what makes sense for your business and your life.
[2051.7] You can book yours now at secondactsexes.co forward slash strategy or grab the link in the
[2057.8] show notes below.
[2059.3] As always, thank you for being here.
[2061.6] Until next time, I'm your host Shannon Russell, wishing you the best day ahead as you
[2066.9] plan your second act.
[2068.8] I'll see you on the next episode.